Tongsheng TSDZ2 review

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Overview

In this Tongsheng TSDZ2 review I will go over the Benefits of this particular electric bike conversion kit. In this post I will be reviewing the 250w version – this is the only variant I can recommend for road legal use in the UK, Europe and Australia.

At the bottom of this post there links on where to buy the Tongsheng TSDZ2

The image below contains links to all versions including the 52v 750w model.

Tongsheng TDZ2 250w - 350w - 500w - 7502 36v 48v 52v

Tongsheng have been manufacturing plug and play mid-drive electric bike conversion kits for a few years now, and although not as popular as the Bafang mid drive conversion kits, Tongsheng are steadily increasing in popularity Earlier versions did have some reliability issues, but as with the Bafang, a lot of these seemed to have been ironed out now.

I have personally installed approximately twenty of these kits on to various bikes, ranging from low-step commuter bikes through to full-suspension mountain bikes.

The main criteria for installation is similar to the Bafang mid-drive, the Tongsheng TSDZ2 will fit any standard threaded  bottom bracket which is 68mm-73mm wide, with an inside diameter of approximately 33.5mm.

Tongsheng TSDZ2 - now available for Fat Bikes 100mm - 120mm BB
Tongsheng TSDZ2 36v / 48v / 52v 100mm-120mm for Fat Bike bottom brackets (GLOBAL SHIPPING)

It must be noted that these kits are not intended to be installed on bikes that use a pressed-fit bottom bracket as the dimensions are not compatible with the motor unit. There can be a way around this if a special shim and mounting plate are machined by a professional engineer. If your bike has a BB30 pressfit bottom bracket, then you would need to purchase is a BB30 to BSA adaptor.

If your bike has an eccentric bottom bracket as fitted to tandems and bike’s with internally geared hubs like the Shimano Nexus, installation is still possible, but may be problematic.

The motor comes as a kit with the following key components:

    • The motor unit with integrated controller
    • LCD Display – VLCD5 / XH18 / VLCD6
    • Wiring loom
    • Inner and outer lock-nuts
    • Chainring 42T
    • Speed sensor and wheel magnet
    • A bag of various Allen bolts and screws
    • Installation tool / spanner


Legal information

Please read my separate article on electric bike law here.

Installation

The installation of this motor is the same as with the Bafang Mid Drive. One of the really useful things about this kit, is unlike the Bafang kit, the Tongsheng kit comes with an installation spanner. If you are looking for a nice easy conversion to do yourself, but you have little or no experience with bicycle mechanics or using tools, I would not recommend this kit. I will write a separate post detailing the installation process with photos, but the installation will need to be carried out by someone who is fairly competent. Removing the bottom bracket can be a right pain, and you will require a lot of patience!

The installation video below shows the installation process, although it looks like they loosened the bottom bracket beforehand!

Technical Data

These motors have an internal torque sensor, and give assistance proportionate to the amount of force applied to the pedals (much like the Bosch system) . The upshot of this is, that you will need to make a certain degree of effort in order for the motor to work, unlike the Bafang system, which will give assistance as soon as the pedals are rotated.

These motors can be reprogrammed using this OpenSource firmware / embedded software but you will need to purchase a KT LCD3 display. It is not as straightforward as programming a Bafang, but if you are willing to have a go, you can really fine-tune this motor to suit your particular needs.

tongsheng tsdz2 with colour display

It should also be noted that unlike the 48v Bafang motor, you cannot use a 52v battery with the 48v version of the Tongsheng. You will need to purchase the 750w 52v TSDZ2.

It should be noted that Tongsheng do not specifically manufacture a 52v TSDZ2, and that all the motor kits sold as 52v have modified firmware.

Like the Bafang, this motor works through a series of gears, and drives the rear wheel directly through a single front chainring. The benefit of this is the motor is using the bike’s gear ratios for maximum efficiency and torque. Also, like the Bafang motor, gear selection is important when pulling away or hill climbing.

Hybrid bike fitted with a tongsheng tsdz2 mid drive electric bike conversion kit

Reliability

I have supplied and installed quite a few Tongsheng TSDZ2 motors and to date, and I have only had one issue reported, and this was on a bike being used for serious off-road riding.

  • Although I haven’t personally had any issues with the Tongsheng, they can and do occur from time to time.
  • The torque sensor has been known to fail – although this seems rare and a replacement is not overly expensive.
  • Controller failure is also much rarer now than it was a few years ago, a replacement controller is much cheaper than a Bafang controller.
  • The blue nylon reduction gear can be prone to premature wear, although this seems to hinge on how hard the bike is being ridden and is unlikely to be a problem on commuter and leisure bike.
  • The ‘Sprag clutch’ or one way bearing has also been known to fail occasionally.
  • Because of the way the power is delivered there doesn’t appear to be much of an increased risk of wear and tear on the bike chain and gear components.

The general feel is one of an enhanced cycling experience, you still have to put in an effort but it makes you feel like you have bionic legs, which is great fun!


Riding a Tongsheng powered Electric Bike

The first installation I did using a Tongsheng motor was on a Voodoo hardtail mountain bike, and I must say I was pleasantly surprised. The 250w motor is very quiet and smooth, and you have up to 4 levels of pedal assist to choose from – ECO / TOUR / SPEED / TURBO.

The torque sensing pedal assist works really well, and having ridden Bosch e-bikes, I would say the power delivery is very similar. The general feel is one of an enhanced cycling experience, you still have to put in an effort but it makes you feel like you have bionic legs, which is great fun!

Another big plus point is that unlike the Bafang motor, the pedalling resistance when the motor is switched off is barely noticeable, although I have been reliably informed that this can vary from motor to motor. Some users report significant resistance with the motor off.

Tongsheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor installed on a hybrid bike

As with the Bafang you will be limited to a single chainring, but Tongsheng offer a 42T as standard, which is much better gearing than the 44T minimum offered by Bafang. The TSDZ2 will also take a standard 110BCD chainring.

As this bike uses a torque sensing system, brakes with cut-off sensors are not required, reducing the need for more untidy external wires.

Another important consideration is the Q-factor – this is the distance between the pedal attachment points on the crank arms, when measured parallel to the bottom bracket axle. On the TSDZ2 the Q-factor is quite wide at 210mm – if this is a problem, it can be easily solved by fitting a pair off standard Bafang BBS  or Shimano Steps FC-E6000 cranks arms which should reduce the above figure by 28mm.

Tongsheng TSDZ2 fitted with shimano steps fc e6000 crank arms

This motor is also 30% lighter than the Bafang equivalent, and the overall look is a little more discreet – below is a photo of an Orange full suspension mountain bike that a customer converted. He also owns a Haibike and actually prefers the Tongsheng conversion!

 

Orange full suspension mountain bike fitted with a tongsheng tsdz2 electric bike kit

Conclusion

As with the Bafang, the Tongsheng will not be for everyone. Installation can be challenging and the motor may need periodic maintenance. It is nonetheless an excellent option, and the end result will be a bike that looks more like a factory produced e-bike.

The torque sensing system may not suit everyone, as you will still need to put a fair amount of effort in for the pedal assist to work. But for me personally, I loved the way it provides assistance. My only real complaint, is that I generally ride my bike at a higher cadence of between 80-100rpm, and this motor does not provide any assistance beyond 90rpm.

>>CHECK LATEST PRICE ON AMAZON<<

The TSDZ2 is also incredibly efficient if used wisely. I recently had 120 mile range from a 36v13ah battery, however I was only using ECO and TOUR mode on the hills -total elevation gain over that distance was 11000ft.

This motor is also a little cheaper than the Bafang, making it excellent value for money.

If you are comfortable with your ability to install it, and you have an appropriate donor bike, then as long as you can live with some of the compromises, this is an excellent electric bike conversion option and an excellent alternative to the Bafang. There is also a good supply of spare parts available – click here for a parts list.

Below are some links to Tongsheng TSDZ2 vendors from Aliexpress and various Amazon locales.

Tongsheng TSDZ2 36v / 48v / 52v
Buy from Aliexpress GLOBAL SHIPPING
Buy from Amazon UK
Buy from Amazon USA
Buy from Amazon Canada
Acquista da Amazon Italia
Kaufen Sie bei Amazon Deutschland
Comprar en Amazon España

In my next post I will be doing a head-to-head Tongsheng vs Bafang comparison.

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Tongsheng TSDZ2

8

Value for Money

9.0/10

Ease of Installation

6.0/10

Reliability

9.0/10

Pros

  • Excellent Value for Money
  • Very efficient
  • Torque Sensing pedal assist

Cons

  • Can be difficult to install for the inexperienced
  • Torque sensing assist is not for everyone
  • Assist stops working at high pedalling rpm

69 thoughts on “Tongsheng TSDZ2 review

  • April 24, 2019 at 5:59 pm
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    Value for Money

    6

    Ease of Installation

    8

    Reliability

    8

    My experience with this motor is only of a 120 km. so far, but I absolutely love it. it feels great to pedal and have the extra assistance always available. I’m riding a 500w motor and it comes with 4 different speeds. I usually keep it on 3 and move it up to 4 when going up hills; it feels great when compared to climbing on a normal bike. It was a little expensive since I am located in South America, but it was worth the investment. So far I’m really happy with this motor.

    Reply
    • April 24, 2019 at 7:23 pm
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      Thank you for your comments. The Tongsheng is a great little motor, and the 500w version is a lot of fun to ride. I’m planning on building a cargo bike later this year and will be using the 48v 500w version to cope with the extra weight. I will post some photos when it’s done.

      All the best
      Tony

      Reply
  • May 17, 2019 at 5:21 am
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    Hello! It feels like the one-way bearing in my motor “glides” a bit. That is, the pedal moves without the chain moving. This doesn’t occur when standing still with brakes on, so I might be mistaken.

    Reply
    • May 17, 2019 at 9:20 am
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      Hi Anders,

      It could be possible there is some slight wear in the sprag clutch. Although I haven’t personally experienced this problem it is not uncommon.

      My advice would be to see how it goes and if the issue gets worse then it may be worth checking and replacing. Here is a YouTube link on how to replace the sprag clutch on the TSDZ2: https://youtu.be/u-SY0rGMEMo

      Regards,
      Tony

      Reply
  • June 1, 2019 at 7:02 am
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    What are the Q-factors of both systems?

    Reply
    • June 1, 2019 at 1:28 pm
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      Hi Wolfgang,

      I have been able to measure (approximately) the Q-factor on the Tongsheng I have installed on my hybrid bike: it is 230mm. The distance from the outside of the crank arm (by pedal) and bottom bracket on chainring side is 100mm and the distance on the non-drive side is 70mm (approximately).

      I have cycled about 150 miles on my new hybrid conversion in the last week and didn’t really notice the crank-side offset.

      I don’t have a Bafang mid-drive here at the moment to take the measurement but apparently it is approximately 190mm, and is 12-13mm right of the centre line of the bike.

      I hope this information is useful. If you have any more questions, please feel free to ask.

      All the best,
      Tony

      Reply
    • June 1, 2019 at 10:06 pm
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      The correct Q-factor for the Tongsheng is 210mm, this can be reduced by 28mm by fitting Bafang BBS cranks. Also Shimano Steps FC-E6000 cranks will substantially improve the Q-factor on the Tongsheng.

      Reply
  • June 4, 2019 at 9:48 am
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    Hello Tony and thanks for an other great review.
    I am concidering the Bafang og the Tongsheng, but i have concerns about their use in cold weather. Do you have any experience with this? Do you know if any one of them is better suited? We are talking frequently below -5 celius.

    Reply
    • June 4, 2019 at 4:56 pm
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      Hi Siggi,

      Glad you enjoyed the review!

      The only motor I have personal experience using in a fairly moderate UK winter is the Bafang BBS02. The minimum air temperature would have been about -1 or -2 Celsius (on occasion) and the motor performed perfectly. I have read reports on forums of people in Norway and Finland using both the Bafang and Tongsheng without any issues.

      The main problem with extended cold weather use would be a decline battery performance / range. A lot of users report a 20% + reduction in range when using an e-bike below zero. You would need to make sure that when you recharge the battery, you do so at a comfortable room temperature of approximately 15-20c.

      If you need any more advice, please let me know.

      All the best,
      Tony

      Reply
      • June 4, 2019 at 6:58 pm
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        Thanks for your relpy!

        Okay, so you dont see any reason why one should be better than the other? E.g the use of nylon gears getting brittle in cold temps.

        Reply
        • June 4, 2019 at 7:29 pm
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          I haven’t heard of cold weather effecting the nylon gear. The heat generated Whilst the motor is in operation should keep the internals relatively warm compared to the outside temperature. Having said that, nylon gear failure does seem to occur more frequently on the Tongsheng when compared to the Bafang.

          Reply
  • June 7, 2019 at 5:35 pm
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    Any tips for fixing the motor without the bridge plate. My turner 5 spot has no bridge but I same it fixed to an orange!?

    Reply
    • June 7, 2019 at 8:18 pm
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      Hi Neil,

      We fabricated a 2-piece clamp with a long M8 bolt. I’m in the process of converting a Whyte 46, i’ll take some photos of the clamp when its done and put it on this page.

      Tony

      Reply
  • June 13, 2019 at 2:56 pm
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    Tony,

    First of all thanks for all the information on ebikechoices.com. It’s a big help for me in choosing the right ebike kit.

    I do have 2 extra questions, just to be on the safe side. I’m thinking of combining a tsdz2 with a 52V 17.5 Ah with a 30A BMS.

    1. Is the battery and 30A BMS to strong for the 750W motor and/or controller? Isn’t it therefore wise to go for 48V battery instead of a 52V one?
    2. Are all ebike batteries of ‘UnitPackPower’ connectable to the tsdz2, or do i need an extra connectors for some batteries?

    Thank you for your help,

    Wout

    Reply
    • June 13, 2019 at 4:33 pm
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      Hi Wout,

      Thank you for your positive comments.

      In answer to your questions:
      It is perfectly safe to use a 52v battery as long as you purchase the 52v version of the TSDZ2. The 48v and 52v motor controllers are different, so a 52v battery would not work with a 48v TSDZ2.
      The TSDZ2 52v 750w motor will draw around 16A from the battery. The 30A BMS rating is the maximum continuous current the battery can safely handle, so the battery will be operating well within its safety parameters and will not overload the motor controller.
      The TSDZ2 motor usually has a ‘male and ‘female’ bullet connector for the battery connection. If you specify this option with UnitPackPower, they will provide the battery with these types of connectors.

      I hope this answers your questions. If you need any more information, please let me know.

      All the best,
      Tony

      Reply
  • June 14, 2019 at 8:31 am
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    Tony,

    I found the following information on the site http://www.electricbike.com:

    “I highly recommend using 48V (or 52V) instead of 36V. If you use the open-source firmware, you can actually unlock the controller to provide up to 30A, but plenty of experimenters have fried their TSDZ2 by using only 18A, but…they were using it too often. To get the max possible power, I recommend the old formula of raising the volts as high as it can go, and to use just barely enough amps to accomplish your goals.

    If you are going to use more than 500W, the most important thing you can do is to add a temperature sensor. Of course you can use a stand-alone unit with a digital display, but another option is to make sure you buy the TSDZ2 8-pin cable version (instead of the six pin), and that allows you (or the dealer you bought it from) to program the controller to automatically roll-back the amps when the motor starts getting hot.”

    Would you suggest the above (52V 17.5aH and a temperature sensor) or keeping it at the safe side and going for a 52V 16Ah battery (because of controllers who get fryed at 18aH)?

    My apologies if i’m running in circles with my questions. I just need a big battery for my commuting (55km’s one way) and bike holiday’s (with trailer for the dog) but i don’t want to damage the motor by overheating it due to a too powerfull battery.

    Thanks again for the help,

    Wout

    Reply
    • June 14, 2019 at 10:27 am
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      Hi Wout,

      Ah and A are different. The ‘Ah’ rating is a unit of electric charge and ‘Amp’ is a unit of electrical current. The TSDZ2 will only ever draw
      the maximum electrical current (16 Amps) from the battery (the battery will only give what is required of it).

      The 52v 17.5ah rating means a total energy capacity of 910 Watt hours (52v x 17.5ah). The 52v 16ah battery would still have a 30A maximum continuous discharge rate, but a lower total energy capacity (832 watt hours). I use a 500w 36v TSDZ2 on my hybrid bike and very rarely need to use ‘full power’mode. Most of the time I find ‘tour mode’ more than adequate. I get an average range of around 112 kms from a 36v13ah battery.

      Assuming you were consuming a constant 15 watt hours per mile (which is unlikely) you would have a range of 96 kms (with the 52v 17.5ah battery). If you were only using the assist 70% of the time the range would be substantially improved.

      Regarding programming the TSDZ2, I personally feel the motor works just fine ‘out of the box’ but for there are some benefits like being able to use displays like the KTLCD3 or Bafang 850c and having access to more information like real-time battery voltage, watts, temperature etc. Also reprogramming can make the motor more efficient. If you decided to go down this route a temperature sensor would be recommended. In stock form, I wouldn’t think it necessary.

      If you have any more questions, please let me know.

      Thanks,
      Tony

      Reply
  • June 14, 2019 at 9:25 pm
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    Tony,

    Ok, i think i’m starting to pick up on the watts and volts. I was indeed under the impression that a battery (with a 30A BMS) could force to much Amps on to the controller, and doing so overheating it. But no matter how strong the battery, it’s always the controller who decides how much Amps are ‘excepted’ in the motor.

    Knowing myself i will probably start ‘playing’ with the settings of the motor once i’ve gotten used to it. I’ve already found a couple of sites to help me with that (www.endless-sphere.com).

    Once again thanks for the fast respons and help.

    Greetings,

    Wout

    Reply
    • June 15, 2019 at 9:16 am
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      Hi Wout,

      Glad to have been of assistance.

      Endless Sphere is a fantastic source of information on the TSDZ2, and the open source software available can really open up the potential of the motor.

      All the best,
      Tony

      Reply
  • June 22, 2019 at 6:33 pm
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    Hi – thanks for such a detailed blog about ebike conversions. I’ve got as far as installing the motor and overcome a few problems but now find there isn’t space to attach the fixing block. Is there a smaller fixing block available or will the motor be secure enough without it? It seems very secure at the moment.
    Thanks
    Charlotte

    Reply
    • June 22, 2019 at 8:00 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Charlotte,

      If you can send me some photos of the installation and the problem area, I might have a solution. Sometimes the motor will have a tendency to pivot forwards if it isn’t secured, although this doesn’t happen all of the time. My email address is cycletek@outlook.com.

      Tony

      Reply
  • June 27, 2019 at 2:55 am
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    I love the article. So here is my question I live in Texas,pretty flat, For the most part I want a cycle to extend my riding range by keeping up a higher speed while trying to avoid getting killed in traffic. Most Texans find bicycles annoying. But I want to still do a little work. I plan to get a 52T/42T crank set to get some top end. I also want to get a good compromise between power and weight. Lastly, I weight about 215lbs. I was thinking of a 48 or 52 750watt, but maybe a 48v 500watt would be enough. I understand you ride a 36v 350, but not sure of your rides or your weight. Thanks!

    Reply
    • June 27, 2019 at 6:51 am
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      Hi Mark,

      Greetings from Cornwall in the UK, glad you like the article. In answer to your question, I currently weigh 225lbs. I use my TSDZ2 ebike for small shopping trips and general running around as it is very hilly where I live. Most of my rides are around 20-25 miles with 2500ft of elevation gain.

      I find the assist more than adequate and use tour mode mostly with turbo mode on the steep (15%) climbs.

      If you have any more questions, please let me know.

      All the best,
      Tony

      Reply
  • July 2, 2019 at 4:04 pm
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    One more question before I buy something. So I am looking for a compromise between speed and ride time. I understand the concept of Watt Hours. So let’s compare a 36v at 17ah = 617 wh and a 48V at 13ah = 624 wh. So also say I have these on bike one 36V 750 watt and the other 48v 750 watt, respectively. Same now I bike 30 miles at 20mph. I pedal at the same cadence and use the same pedaling force(let’s say I use 200 watts of my own power during that ride). I set both bike on the eco mode. Assume the bikes are the same quality and the overall weight is about the same. Would one battery have significantly more WH’s left then the other. If no, say I keep everything the same, but double or triple the distance does the difference in WH remaining become more significant.

    In rereading this and realized I say nothing about the controller. It seems like the amperage of the controller increases somewhat with voltage and/or motor wattage. But I understand that the controller stated amperage is the max continuous, but for my experiment it would not be a factor, maybe?

    Thanks so much!!

    Reply
    • July 2, 2019 at 8:51 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Mark,

      The 36v TSDZ2 produces a maximum of 576 watts (nominal) 36v x 16A or 675 watts from a fully charged battery (42.2v). The maximum current the standard controller will draw is 16A, the same applies to the 48v 750w model – 768w (nominal) 48v x 16A or 870w from a fully charged battery (54.4v).

      From the testing I have done so far, it would seem that the 4 assist levels go up in 25% increments: ECO 4A, Tour 8A and so on.

      The 48v motor would deplete the 13ah battery quicker over the 30 miles as the power output in watts would be higher in all the assist levels: ECO mode – 48v x 4A (192w) vs 36v x 4A (144w). So you would have substantially more battery life left in the 36v17ah battery.

      There is some great open source software available for reprogramming the Tongsheng that really opens up the potential for this motor.

      I hope this goes some way to answering your question.

      All the best,
      Tony

      Reply
    • August 3, 2019 at 10:51 am
      Permalink

      Hi Paul,
      Thinking of fitting a 48v 500w to a hase ketweissel trike. Ive seen a picture of a bafang fitted to this trike – pretty clear the steering rod needs re-routing above the crank.

      Have you heard of anyone sucessfully doing this conversion, or any suggestions/advice.

      Graham

      Reply
      • August 3, 2019 at 1:45 pm
        Permalink

        Hi Graham,

        I have converted a few tadpole trikes before, but never a delta. I have had a look at the Ketweissel trike on the Hase website and I see what you mean about the steering rod. I haven’t heard of anyone using a crank motor on one of these bikes, the only electric conversions I can find on the internet use front wheel hub motors.

        The TSDZ2 is physically smaller than the Bafang. If there is a way of increasing the space between the steering rod and the boom (without compromising the steering), that might give you just enough clearance. Possibly by installing a spacer where the rod joins the handlebars.

        From what I have read so far, a front hub motor seems to be the easiest electric conversion option, but you may still need to think about extension leads for the motor and pedal assist sensor due to the length of the trike and motor controller placement.

        I hope this information helps.

        All the best,
        Tony

        Reply
  • July 7, 2019 at 4:06 pm
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    Is the kit compatible with hydraulic disk brakes or do you need to buy separate brake sensors?

    Reply
    • July 7, 2019 at 6:15 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Vicky,

      The TSDZ2 doesn’t require brake cut-offs unless there is a throttle fitted. Because the motor uses a torque sensor the motor will only work when force is being applied to the pedals. As soon as pedalling stops or force is no longer applied the motor cuts off.

      I hope this answers your question. If you need any more advice, please let me know.

      All the best,
      Tony

      Reply
      • July 10, 2019 at 9:39 am
        Permalink

        Thanks Tony, I was planning on installing a throttle, just because I’m currently overcoming a long term illness – so will need it for hills. If I do want to get a throttle do I buy the brake sensors separately, are they all compatible?
        Thanks

        Reply
        • July 10, 2019 at 7:26 pm
          Permalink

          Hi Vicky,

          You will need to purchase the sensors separately if you have hydraulic brakes. I have just checked and there are hydraulic brake sensors available for the TSDZ2, they are compatible with the VLCD5 display only. Here is a link for them.

          Regards,
          Tony

          Reply
  • July 16, 2019 at 1:28 pm
    Permalink

    Hello,
    I’m planning to convert my road bike (bullhorn handles) with this motor in 500W option.
    What would be the smallest battery i could use with it? (not to put too much more weight on the frame, as im 100kgs already)

    I don’t have a long distance o commute, its approx 10km both ways, but on return home i have it uphill climb that is just unbearable after whole day of physical labor, especially in winter. So it would be mostly that and occasional commute around town, but similar distances.

    I was thinking of a bottle battery, as they are cheaper i think, and capacity would be enough. Also initial investment would be ok to handle. Then if i would wear out the smaller battery i could replace it with sth bigger?

    Reply
    • July 16, 2019 at 3:23 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Paul,

      The 36v10.5ah compact bottle battery from UPP is your best bet. I have used this particular battery many times and it will fit in most standard bottle cages. It is about the same size as a 950ml water bottle and weighs around 2kg.

      If you need any more advice, let me know.

      Cheers,
      Tony

      Reply
  • July 16, 2019 at 4:28 pm
    Permalink

    Thanks!
    Do i understand correctly that i would need just motor conversion kit plus this battery? No controller box (as it has no throttle), and just a sensor in the crank?
    Do you have any link from confirmed supplier for the conversion kit please?

    Reply
    • July 16, 2019 at 4:46 pm
      Permalink

      Yes, that would just need the motor kit and battery. The controller and sensor are all integrated. Here is the link to the supplier I use. If you live in Europe they usually ship from Germany, you will need to choose the tax free shipping option. Delivery usually takes 3-7 days.

      If you live outside of the EU you can still get tax free shipping but the motor would be shipped direct from. China and delivery would take roughly 10 – 14 working days.

      Reply
  • July 17, 2019 at 3:23 pm
    Permalink

    Thanks! Which motor/battery option do you recommend? 36v or 42v?
    I see that they have 750W motor version as well, and not much more expensive.
    Is that truly 750W or its just marketing? Would this kind of motor be overkill?

    Reply
    • July 17, 2019 at 4:45 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Paul,

      Personally I think the 36v 500w is more than adequate. A 36v battery is 42.2v fully charged.

      The 48v 750w has more grunt, which is definitely more noticeable on the steeper hills. The power output is calculated by volts (V) x amps (A) – the 48v version is 48v x 16A = 768w. This figure would be higher with a fully charged battery (54.4v).

      There is also a 52v version which would give you 832w. The other benefit of the 52v version is the pedal assist seems to work at a slightly higher pedalling cadence. Here is a link to the 52v motor. and a 52v11.6ah battery pack. Here is a link for a choice of 48v bottle batteries – they are bigger and slightly heavier than the compact bottle batteries, but still look quite neat.

      I have tried all of the TSDZ2 motors and for out and out power the 52v is best, but in my opinion the 500w 36v is the best all rounder.

      Cheers,
      Tony

      Reply
  • July 20, 2019 at 4:57 pm
    Permalink

    Hi Paul
    Great article!
    In the Woosh listing of this kit it says something about the bottom bracket clearance is too small for cable guides. My Marin St Rafael 2 has a minimal plastic guide for the two bare gear shift wires. I notice in some of your pictures there are bikes with gear cables running under the bottom brackets. Would I run into trouble?
    I really would prefer a torque based system so this kit is much the better option.
    Thanks Ian

    Reply
    • July 20, 2019 at 6:02 pm
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      Hi Ian,

      The clearance between the motor and bottom bracket is very limited. Sometimes fitting a very slimline cable guide will work, but the screw that secures the cable guide to the frame can also get in the way. If fitting a slimmer guide doesn’t work, I usually re-route the gear cable (and use a cable outer).

      If you need any more information, please let me know.

      All the best,
      Tony

      Reply
  • July 22, 2019 at 8:43 am
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    Tony
    Many thanks. I’ll look into rerouting the rear gear cable. My apologies for getting your name wrong!
    Cheers Ian

    Reply
    • July 22, 2019 at 11:25 am
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      Glad to have been of assistance, don’t worry about getting my name wrong, it happens all the time👍

      Reply
  • August 5, 2019 at 2:52 am
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    I live in a country with the max wattage limit of 250W. I would prefer a slightly more powerful version of the TSDZ2, because I live on a hill. I assume the motor is always the same except for a different or differently programmed controller. My question: What Wattage is stamped on the motor housing when I order a 500W version. If it says 500, can I order the 250W version instead and then re-programme the controller easily?

    Reply
    • August 5, 2019 at 6:18 am
      Permalink

      I have installed all the 36v versions of the TSDZ2 and there is nothing stamped on the motor casing to indicate the power output (only voltage). You are correct regarding the controller settings, all three models (250w / 350w / 500w) are identical apart from slightly different controller settings. The TSDZ2 can be reprogrammed, although the process isn’t as straightforward as on the Bafang.

      The information regarding reprogramming the Tongsheng can be found on this website: https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-firmware/TSDZ2_wiki/wiki

      If you need any more information, please let me know.

      All the best,
      Tony

      Reply
  • August 5, 2019 at 1:00 pm
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    Hi Tony,
    Thanks for your quick response. From your experience, would you now rather buy a 48V motor and limit it to say approx 11A for max output of 500W or would you stay with your 36V motor with 14 -16A. What is more efficient, which way can you expect to get more mileage? I have not seriously looked at battery pricing, but I gather that 48V batteries will be quite a bit more expensive.

    Cheers,
    Win

    Reply
    • August 5, 2019 at 1:47 pm
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      Hi Win,

      Personally I found the 36v to be more than suitable. Most of the rides I did were 30-60 kms usually with around 600-1000m of elevation gain. I used to get a very long range out of a standard 36v 13ah battery – between 120 – 180 kms out of a single charge. Although I only used the e-assist occasionally (on hills above 4% gradient). Most of the time I used Eco and Tour mode for climbing, I very rarely used Speed or Turbo mode.

      I reckon with the assist on tour mode constantly (assuming the assist was limited to 25km/h) you would be looking at a realistic range of around 70-80 kms.

      I have installed the 48v 350w / 500w and 750w versions. The 48v 500w version felt like it had more torque than the 36v and the 750w version felt quicker in speed and turbo mode. As far a battery consumption goes the 48v version wasn’t noticeably more or less efficient than the 36v.

      Price wise there shouldn’t be any difference between a 36v or 48v battery of the same energy capacity. A 36v 13ah battery would have the same energy capacity as a 48v 9.7ah battery (468 watt hours). But a 48v 13ah battery would cost more due to the higher energy capacity (624 Wh). The energy capacity can be calculated by Volts x Amp hours = Watt hours. I believe the 36v 500w TSDZ2 consumes roughly 9Wh per mile in tour mode.

      I hope this info helps.

      Cheers,
      Tony

      Reply
      • August 6, 2019 at 12:56 am
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        Thanks for your detailed advice.
        Win

        Reply
        • August 6, 2019 at 8:14 am
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          No worries, anytime you need advice, let me know.

          Cheers,
          Tony

          Reply
          • August 27, 2019 at 10:24 am
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            Hi Tony,

            I can buy a bare shimano alfine 11 speed hub from a German on-line seller for 218 E versus approx $600 at home. How do you rate this IGH for e-bikes. Will it cope with the torque of a Tonsheng TSDZ2 350-500W 36V or even 500W 48V motor. This hub runs in oil and has needle bearings to reduce friction. I have seen some commercial e-bikes with this IGH installed. I have recently seen some bad reviews of the Nuvinvi N380 which is sold by this German seller for less than 100 E.

            Cheers,
            Win

          • August 27, 2019 at 2:11 pm
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            Hi Win,

            I have used both the Alfine 8 and 11 successfully with the TSDZ2 350w and 500w 36v. Here is a link to a YouTube video I took of a TSDZ2 fitted to a recumbent trike with Alfine 11 and Di2. The customer who I converted this trike for has done a few hundred km without any issues.

            I also converted a bike with the Alfine 8 using a 1000w Bafang BBSHD (and gearshift sensor) and a year on the bike and IGH is still going strong – video of me riding the bike.

            I haven’t any personal experience with the NuVinci N380, but I have read about some issues when using with hi-torque ebike motors. I believe that Shimano and NuVinci are releasing (or have released) e-bike specific internally geared hubs.

            Cheers,
            Tony

  • August 12, 2019 at 11:31 am
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    Tony,

    I followed up on your advice and i’m currently looking for a 52v 750w tsdz2 (combined with a 52v 17aH battery from em3ev).

    I contacted the company to which you referred through in a link you gave in the reply section (“There is also a 52v version which would give you 832w. The other benefit of the 52v version is the pedal assist seems to work at a slightly higher pedalling cadence. Here is a link to the 52v motor.”) from the 17th of July.

    They however told me, through chat, that they only sell a 48V motor adapted for a 52V battery. I realize that communications, in english, with a chinese helpdesk can be subjected to miss interpretation/information so thats why i’m reaching to you for some clarification.

    The information upon which a based i my request concerning the difference between a 48V and 52V motor comes from the following website: https://www.eco-ebike.com/collections/tongsheng-tsdz2/products/tsdz2vlcd5?variant=12702228742226. The 52V motor would indeed have a higher cadence and would make more rpm (4000 vs 4500 if i’m not mistaken). Extra’s which would make my ride more enjoyable (going over difficult terrain at a cadence preference between 90 and 110).

    Is all of the above however a reason for concern, and noticable, if i would tinker with the settings (which i get from opensphere.com) in which i can change the cadence?

    Thanks again for helping me out.

    Greetings,

    Wout

    Reply
    • August 12, 2019 at 4:32 pm
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      Hi Wout,

      I have spoken to my contact at Tongsheng, and he has confirmed they do not actually manufacture a 52v specific model, so the supplier would have been correct.

      All the 52v versions on sale have modified firmware. The motor is identical to the 48v version, and the max current is usually set at around 16-17A.

      The Open source software is freely available, and allows for higher pedalling cadence, motor rpm whilst achieving better motor efficiency.

      I have installed a few 52v versions from my supplier without any issues, although there have been some reports of poorly programmed units needing to be returned to the other suppliers.

      I hope this goes some way to answering your question.

      Regards,
      Tony

      Reply
  • August 12, 2019 at 9:59 pm
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    Hi, you mention a problem using with a hub gear. I am looking to convert an old Dawes Kingpin Sturmey archer 3 speed. Could you explain please. Thanks TonyC

    Reply
    • August 12, 2019 at 11:45 pm
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      Hi Tony,

      There would only be a potential issue if your Dawes had an eccentric bottom bracket, otherwise it shouldn’t be a problem. The TSDZ2 usually works very well with bikes that have hub gears.

      To be sure, check the underside of your bottom bracket shell, and see if there are pinch bolts. If you have these then you would have an eccentric BB fitted, and you would need to make some modifications in order to fit the motor.

      Let me know how you get on. If you are in any doubt, you can send me photos to my email address: cycletek@outlook.com.

      All the best,
      Tony

      Reply
  • August 13, 2019 at 4:54 pm
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    Tony,

    Thanks for clearing up the 48v vs 52v question.

    I’m however still not out of the woods yet. A couple extra questions if you don’t mind…

    How can i tell if a tsdz2 52v 750w motor (which they sell) has a 6 or 8-pin connector? I need a 8-pin connector in order to flash the software. Is the difference between a 6 and 8-pin the option of a thumb throttle/light?

    What kind of connector, comming from the controller, connects with the battery? I assume that i can ask em3ev to provide me with the male/female equivalent so i don’t have to start soldering?

    Thanks again for all the help regarding my never ending questions.

    Greetings,

    Wout

    Reply
    • August 13, 2019 at 8:48 pm
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      Hi Wout,

      I have just checked and can confirm the 52v TSDZ2 sold by ebird store has the 6-pin connector. The difference between the 6 and 8 pin is the 8-pin connector will work with a throttle and brake cut-off circuit.

      Eunorau ebike store on Aliexpress sell the 48v 500w TSDZ2 with the Bafang P850c colour display. I have just checked the photos in the listing description and the connector is 8-pin. I have made several purchases from Eunorau and they have always provided a good service.

      The battery connection is usually red (male) and black (female) bullet connectors. Some suppliers use the red and black small anderson powerpole connectors.

      EM3EV should provide you with the connectors you require. They are a great company!

      All the best,
      Tony

      Reply
  • August 17, 2019 at 2:55 pm
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    Thanks for the response. The Dawes Kingpin has a conventional BB the hub gear query was related to the possibility that the maximum torque might be exceeded. I would imagine that it’s only a problem with non road legal power levels. The KIngpin idea is on the back burner as it is more likely that My wife’s road tyred mountain bike will be the first to try. Unfortunately with a drop frame there is no room for a battery in the main frame triangle

    Reply
    • August 17, 2019 at 6:35 pm
      Permalink

      The maximum torque wouldn’t be an issue with the 250w version. Due to the nature of the pedal assist the power delivery is quite subtle and doesn’t kick in too harshly.

      Regarding a battery suitable for your wife’s mountain bike, you could try either a 36v compact bottle battery or a rack mounted battery. I have fitted both of these types of batteries on low-step frame bikes in the past.

      Reply
  • August 22, 2019 at 4:55 pm
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    Hi,
    in the installation video, at 00:40 they are using a “scale” to check the frame clearence. Is there any possibility to get this tool from somewhere.
    Or even just the measurements would be fine. As i am interested in installing this to a used full suspension mtb, which i have not bought yet, this would definitely come in handy.
    Thanks!

    Reply
    • August 22, 2019 at 9:08 pm
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      Hi Mikko,

      Thanks for the link, much appreciated. Hopefully others will find it useful.

      Cheers,
      Tony

      Reply
  • August 25, 2019 at 2:59 pm
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    Value for Money

    8.5

    Ease of Installation

    8.5

    Reliability

    0

    Hi Tony:

    I am hoping you can help me diagnose the defective part in with our Tongsheng.
    The incident as was told to me by my friend was pedaling around a corner, coming upon a truck in the bike line, hard braking and then no motor power. I listened over the phone and could hear the motor engaging so I figured the nylon gear stripped. I order and installed without further diagnosis, only to discover the gear looked ok and the bike still has no power.
    I removed the motor and it appear to be spinning about 200 rpm, set from factory at 4000.
    I can pretty much stop the rear wheel with my hand while the bike is upside down and engaging the motor and trying to ride produced no noticeable power / torque.
    So there are 3 components, the motor, the controller, the torque sensor.
    From what I understand I should be able to visually inspect the motor for burning if I take it apart but is there another way to test it has not burned up.
    Could a mosfet or 2 in the controller have burned out and in now not letting full amperage the motor or could the firmware have corrupted? I think the factory configured for 36V 500W which is not standard. Is there a way to bypass the controller to eliminate the motor?
    Does the torque sensor act like a variable resister and could it have burned. I would think I should be able to apply power directly to the controller and test controller and motor. Can you give me any direction on this.
    Thanks for any help you can provide to help me figure out what happened and which component to replace.

    Jim S

    Reply
    • August 25, 2019 at 4:36 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Jim,

      Testing the controller would be a good place to start. I’ve emailed you a PDF on how to test an ebike controller using a multimeter.

      Smelling the motor / controller is always an easy indication of burning, it is quite a distinctive smell.

      Let me know how you get on testing the controller and we can go from there. The motor is DC, so it should be possible to test the motor directly, although I have never tried this before with the TSDZ2 so I would exercise caution.

      Regards,
      Tony

      Reply
  • August 30, 2019 at 6:54 pm
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    Hi Tony,
    Thank you for your brilliant website. It is really helpful and has inspired me to convert my wife’s old Specialized Rockhopper into an e bike.
    I’ve ordered a 250W 36v TSDZ2 motor kit, but which battery am I allowed to use to fit in with UK law? Does it have to be a 36v 10Ah battery, or can I use a 36v battery with a higher Ah rating?
    Thank you.
    Mark S

    Reply
    • August 30, 2019 at 9:34 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Mark,

      Thanks you for your positive comments, much appreciated.

      In answer to your question, it doesn’t matter what Ah capacity battery you use as this will not effect the power output of the motor. It will just give you a greater range.

      If you are looking for a decent spec downtube battery at a reasonable price, I have purchased a few of these Everpro 36v14.5ah batteries from Amazon in the past and they have always been totally reliable.

      If you need any more advice, please let me know.

      Regards,
      Tony

      Reply
  • August 30, 2019 at 9:46 pm
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    Hi Tony,
    Thank you for answering so quickly. That’s really helpful.
    I’ll let you know how I get on!
    Best Regards,
    Mark

    Reply
  • August 31, 2019 at 4:11 pm
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    Hi Tony,

    Great article, it’s got really keen to try a conversion.

    Would you be kind enough to answer a couple of questions:

    Bike is a 2014 Boardman MX Sport

    1. Online spec says my bike has: “bottom bracket – SRAM Square Taper 68mm Shell”
    Will the TSDZ2 kit fit my bike?
    2. I ride for a max of 40km but there are many short, (half mile), but very steep hills and I hate having to dismount.
    I am not looking for total lack of effort as that defeats the object of becoming fitter through cycling but I would love an occasional assist on the hills.
    Which motor / battery combination would best suit my kind of riding?
    Many thanks,
    Ian

    Reply
    • August 31, 2019 at 6:21 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Ian,

      The TSDZ2 will fit, but you may need to re-route any cables running under the bottom bracket due to the limited clearance between the motor and bottom bracket.

      As far as motor and battery combination is concerned a 250w should do the job. I have tested the TSDZ2 250w on a short 30% gradient, and it got me up there okay, albeit with a bit of extra effort. If you’re not concerned about the legal aspect, I think the 36v 500w version offers the right balance of power for steep climbs.

      Regarding battery choice, a good quality 36v13ah battery should give you more than enough range. I used to regularly get 80km out of one of these using mainly tour mode.

      If you need any more advice, please let me know.

      Cheers,
      Tony

      Reply
  • September 2, 2019 at 1:26 pm
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    Hi all, i have purchased mid motor, now im looking for a battery that will be well priced and not too big. what do you think of this one? My motor is TSZ2 48v/500w.

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/48V-10Ah-Li-ion-Electric-E-Bike-Battery-Bicycle-Lockable-w-USB-Port-2A-Charger/401820619805?hash=item5d8e60141d:g:izAAAOSwW95dMZqm

    seems to be quite well priced, and seller seems to have good feedback.
    Any other suggestions and advise most welcome, as im not sure if this is a proper battery for my motor. 🙂

    Reply
    • September 2, 2019 at 2:36 pm
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      Hi Paul,

      The battery looks decent enough. It uses unbranded Chinese lithium cells which don’t quite have the longevity of branded cells like Samsung or LG, but for the price it’s good value. It should work just fine with your 48v 500w Tongsheng.

      If you were happy to pay a bit more money, I would go for a 48v 13ah battery, but it really depends on the kind of mileage you plan on doing.

      All the best,
      Tony

      Reply

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