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Tongsheng TSDZ2 review

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Overview

In this Tongsheng TSDZ2 review I will go over the Benefits of this particular electric bike conversion kit. In this post I will be reviewing the 250w version – this is the only variant I can recommend for road legal use in the UK, Europe and Australia.

At the bottom of this post there links on where to buy the Tongsheng TSDZ2

The image below contains links to all versions including the 52v 750w model.

Tongsheng TDZ2 250w - 350w - 500w - 7502 36v 48v 52v

Tongsheng have been manufacturing plug and play mid-drive electric bike conversion kits for a few years now, and although not as popular as the Bafang mid drive conversion kits, Tongsheng are steadily increasing in popularity Earlier versions did have some reliability issues, but as with the Bafang, a lot of these seemed to have been ironed out now.

I have personally installed approximately twenty of these kits on to various bikes, ranging from low-step commuter bikes through to full-suspension mountain bikes.

The main criteria for installation is similar to the Bafang mid-drive, the Tongsheng TSDZ2 will fit any standard threaded  bottom bracket which is 68mm-73mm wide, with an inside diameter of approximately 33.5mm.

Tongsheng TSDZ2 - now available for Fat Bikes 100mm - 120mm BB
Tongsheng TSDZ2 36v / 48v / 52v 100mm-120mm for Fat Bike bottom brackets (GLOBAL SHIPPING)

It must be noted that these kits are not intended to be installed on bikes that use a pressed-fit bottom bracket as the dimensions are not compatible with the motor unit. There can be a way around this if a special shim and mounting plate are machined by a professional engineer. If your bike has a BB30 pressfit bottom bracket, then you would need to purchase is a BB30 to BSA adaptor.

If your bike has an eccentric bottom bracket as fitted to tandems and bike’s with internally geared hubs like the Shimano Nexus, installation is still possible, but may be problematic.

The motor comes as a kit with the following key components:

    • The motor unit with integrated controller
    • LCD Display – VLCD5 / XH18 / VLCD6
    • Wiring loom
    • Inner and outer lock-nuts
    • Chainring 42T
    • Speed sensor and wheel magnet
    • A bag of various Allen bolts and screws
    • Installation tool / spanner
CHECK PRICE AND AVAILABILITY ON AMAZON IN VARIOUS LOCALES

Legal information

Please read my separate article on electric bike law here.

Installation

The installation of this motor is the same as with the Bafang Mid Drive. One of the really useful things about this kit, is unlike the Bafang kit, the Tongsheng kit comes with an installation spanner. If you are looking for a nice easy conversion to do yourself, but you have little or no experience with bicycle mechanics or using tools, I would not recommend this kit. I will write a separate post detailing the installation process with photos, but the installation will need to be carried out by someone who is fairly competent. Removing the bottom bracket can be a right pain, and you will require a lot of patience!

The installation video below shows the installation process, although it looks like they loosened the bottom bracket beforehand!

Technical Data

These motors have an internal torque sensor, and give assistance proportionate to the amount of force applied to the pedals (much like the Bosch system) . The upshot of this is, that you will need to make a certain degree of effort in order for the motor to work, unlike the Bafang system, which will give assistance as soon as the pedals are rotated.

These motors can be reprogrammed using this OpenSource firmware / embedded software but you will need to purchase a KT LCD3 display. It is not as straightforward as programming a Bafang, but if you are willing to have a go, you can really fine-tune this motor to suit your particular needs.

tongsheng tsdz2 with colour display

It should also be noted that unlike the 48v Bafang motor, you cannot use a 52v battery with the 48v version of the Tongsheng. You will need to purchase the 750w 52v TSDZ2.

It should be noted that Tongsheng do not specifically manufacture a 52v TSDZ2, and that all the motor kits sold as 52v have modified firmware.

Like the Bafang, this motor works through a series of gears, and drives the rear wheel directly through a single front chainring. The benefit of this is the motor is using the bike’s gear ratios for maximum efficiency and torque. Also, like the Bafang motor, gear selection is important when pulling away or hill climbing.

Hybrid bike fitted with a tongsheng tsdz2 mid drive electric bike conversion kit

Reliability

I have supplied and installed quite a few Tongsheng TSDZ2 motors and to date, and I have only had one issue reported, and this was on a bike being used for serious off-road riding.

  • Although I haven’t personally had any issues with the Tongsheng, they can and do occur from time to time.
  • The torque sensor has been known to fail – although this seems rare and a replacement is not overly expensive.
  • Controller failure is also much rarer now than it was a few years ago, a replacement controller is much cheaper than a Bafang controller.
  • The blue nylon reduction gear can be prone to premature wear, although this seems to hinge on how hard the bike is being ridden and is unlikely to be a problem on commuter and leisure bike.
  • The ‘Sprag clutch’ or one way bearing has also been known to fail occasionally.
  • Because of the way the power is delivered there doesn’t appear to be much of an increased risk of wear and tear on the bike chain and gear components.

The general feel is one of an enhanced cycling experience, you still have to put in an effort but it makes you feel like you have bionic legs, which is great fun!

Riding a Tongsheng powered Electric Bike

The first installation I did using a Tongsheng motor was on a Voodoo hardtail mountain bike, and I must say I was pleasantly surprised. The 250w motor is very quiet and smooth, and you have up to 4 levels of pedal assist to choose from – ECO / TOUR / SPEED / TURBO.

The torque sensing pedal assist works really well, and having ridden Bosch e-bikes, I would say the power delivery is very similar. The general feel is one of an enhanced cycling experience, you still have to put in an effort but it makes you feel like you have bionic legs, which is great fun!

Another big plus point is that unlike the Bafang motor, the pedalling resistance when the motor is switched off is barely noticeable, although I have been reliably informed that this can vary from motor to motor. Some users report significant resistance with the motor off.

Tongsheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor installed on a hybrid bike

As with the Bafang you will be limited to a single chainring, but Tongsheng offer a 42T as standard, which is much better gearing than the 44T minimum offered by Bafang. The TSDZ2 will also take a standard 110BCD chainring.

As this bike uses a torque sensing system, brakes with cut-off sensors are not required, reducing the need for more untidy external wires.

Another important consideration is the Q-factor – this is the distance between the pedal attachment points on the crank arms, when measured parallel to the bottom bracket axle. On the TSDZ2 the Q-factor is quite wide at 210mm – if this is a problem, it can be easily solved by fitting a pair off standard Bafang BBS  or Shimano Steps FC-E6000 cranks arms which should reduce the above figure by 28mm.

Tongsheng TSDZ2 fitted with shimano steps fc e6000 crank arms

This motor is also 30% lighter than the Bafang equivalent, and the overall look is a little more discreet – below is a photo of an Orange full suspension mountain bike that a customer converted. He also owns a Haibike and actually prefers the Tongsheng conversion!

Orange full suspension mountain bike fitted with a tongsheng tsdz2 electric bike kit

Conclusion

As with the Bafang, the Tongsheng will not be for everyone. Installation can be challenging and the motor may need periodic maintenance. It is nonetheless an excellent option, and the end result will be a bike that looks more like a factory produced e-bike.

The torque sensing system may not suit everyone, as you will still need to put a fair amount of effort in for the pedal assist to work. But for me personally, I loved the way it provides assistance. My only real complaint, is that I generally ride my bike at a higher cadence of between 80-100rpm, and this motor does not provide any assistance beyond 90rpm.

CHECK PRICE AND AVAILABILITY ON AMAZON IN VARIOUS LOCALES

The TSDZ2 is also incredibly efficient if used wisely. I recently had 120 mile range from a 36v13ah battery, however I was only using ECO and TOUR mode on the hills -total elevation gain over that distance was 11000ft.

This motor is also a little cheaper than the Bafang, making it excellent value for money.

If you are comfortable with your ability to install it, and you have an appropriate donor bike, then as long as you can live with some of the compromises, this is an excellent electric bike conversion option and an excellent alternative to the Bafang. There is also a good supply of spare parts available – click here for a parts list.

Below are some links to Tongsheng TSDZ2 vendors from Aliexpress and various Amazon locales.

AliExpress.com Product – EU no tax 36/48V/52V 250w/350/500W/750W TONGSHENG TSDZ2 Central Motor Mid Drive Motor eBike Kit Torque Sensor

Buy the Tongsheng TSDZ2 36v / 48v / 52v

Tongsheng TDZ2 250w - 350w - 500w - 7502 36v 48v 52v
Buy on Aliexpress
Buy on Amazon
Buy on eBay

In my next post I will be doing a head-to-head Tongsheng vs Bafang comparison.

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Tongsheng TSDZ2

8

Value for Money

9.0/10

Ease of Installation

6.0/10

Reliability

9.0/10

Pros

  • Excellent Value for Money
  • Very efficient
  • Torque Sensing pedal assist

Cons

  • Can be difficult to install for the inexperienced
  • Torque sensing assist is not for everyone
  • Assist stops working at high pedalling rpm

292 thoughts on “Tongsheng TSDZ2 review

  • October 27, 2020 at 5:47 pm
    Permalink

    Hi Tony,

    I hope i’ve sent this enquiry in the correct window? (If not – apologies and please direct me to the appropriate link – thanks)…

    Like a number of other trike riders, I am considering the practicalities of using a TSDZ2 on my ICE Sprint26 to enable me to be e-assisted for more regular (hilly) commutes and greater range on those weekend ride outs for pleasure…

    I’ve noticed from other trike adaptations out there, that there is a noticable asymmetry (to the right) of the installation with this unit, of approximately 17mm, which as well as increasing the Q-factor, perhaps heightens this psychologically for the potential e rider…

    Do riders find this noticably off-putting?

    Can a change of brand of cranks reduce this/or the fitting of a less curved R/H crank only help?

    I run 160mm cranks at present… can you recommend suppliers/a brand/type compatable with the Tongsheng square taper axle which would offer this size or even a shorter crank (say 155mm or 152mm)… I am 5′ 6″ – hence this crank choice…

    Noise pinion/motor – this has come up in discussions from time to time I’ve noticed… is it mainly from the pinon gear area?…and the more duarble metal pinions are even nosier I understand!… Can a re-pack of suitable grease alleviate this to some extent?… are the units now imported/sold now fitted with the later & quieter torque sensor design?… Are the considerably more expensive Shimano Steps units much quieter in your opinion?

    I see that some of the units recently purchased and fitted by riders are the 48V (250W) types… are these offering a greater torque whilst still being the road legal 250W max?…

    Lots of questions here I realise!… I hope you may be able to assist.

    Thank you.

    Reply
    • October 27, 2020 at 8:22 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Melvyn,

      I’ve fitted the TSDZ2 to seven Ice Trikes so far, and the q-factor can be somewhat reduced by using the old style Shimano Steps FC-E6000 crank arms, although these only seem to be available in 170mm-175mm length. Bafang BBS motor crank arms are available from China (via Aliexpress) and do seem to be available in 152mm length (link here).

      As far as motor noise concerned, there seems to be a noticeable difference from motor to motor. I’ve installed around 40 TSDZ2 motors to date – some are fairly quiet and some quite audible. I have found that some motors aren’t particularly well greased, and adding Mobilegrease28 can reduce the motor noise. If you choose to fit the brass primary gear a good dollop of grease is recommended, the motor will be noisier initially, although it will quieten down after a couple of hundred miles.

      My own personal ebike uses a Shimano Steps E6100 motor – it’s much quieter than the Tongsheng, and also smoother and more efficient in operation. Although this system does cost considerably more (especially when fitted by ICE). Having also owned a TSDZ2-powered ebike, I feel the Tongsheng offers the best value for money for a plug-and-play crank-drive ebike system. The Torque sensor is very responsive to pedalling input and feels very close in function to the Shimano and Bosch ebike motors.

      Having fitted both the 36v and 48v versions, the main difference is the 48v can operate at 250w at a lower current (A) than the 36v. There doesn’t appear to be any noticeable difference in performance or efficiency between the two systems.

      I hope this info helps, if you have any more questions, please let me know.

      All the best,
      Tony

      Reply
      • October 27, 2020 at 10:41 pm
        Permalink

        Hi Tony,

        Thanks so much for your prompt reply and such useful insights!

        I’d love a Steps ICE trike but at the moment I can’t quite justify the £££ difference… However, I’m hoping I can save my knees with the TSDZ2 and learn a lot along the way without feeling I’m cheating too much!

        I’ll keep in touch as I continue this journey of exploration… I’m sure I’ll touch base with you regarding batteries very shortly.

        Kind regards,

        Melvyn

        Reply
        • October 28, 2020 at 11:38 am
          Permalink

          Hi Melvyn,

          You’re welcome, anytime you need advice, give me a shout.

          Cheers,
          Tony

          Reply
  • October 13, 2020 at 11:17 pm
    Permalink

    Hi Tony,
    Thank you for writing a very helpful internet page on the Tongsheng.
    I have a couple of questions.
    Would I be able to buy the 52V motor but run it with a 48V battery?
    (That way I would have the option to upgrade to a 52V (14S) battery in future should I wish)
    Or will a voltage cut-off take effect, thereby not allowing me to discharge the 48V battery very much.
    Second thing, can I run a throttle on any of the motors, or do they need to be 6 pin (or was it 8 pin) for this to work?
    Many thanks in advance,
    Julian

    Reply
    • October 14, 2020 at 7:23 am
      Permalink

      Hi Julian,

      I haven’t personally tried a 48v battery on a motor configured for 52v, but I don’t see any reason why a 48v battery wouldn’t work as the low voltage cut-off point on 52v batteries is usually the same (around 41v). You will need the 8-pin connector in order to use a throttle.

      I hope this helps, glad you like the article. If you have any more questions, let me know.

      Cheers,
      Tony

      Reply
      • October 14, 2020 at 7:52 pm
        Permalink

        Thank you Tony!
        I was more talking about a voltage cut-off in the motor controller? Are you aware if they upped the controller cut-off for the 52 V model? This is more my concern than the battery.
        Julian

        Reply
        • October 14, 2020 at 8:29 pm
          Permalink

          Hi Julian,

          It might be worth asking the supplier for a clear answer as a lot of the suppliers apply their own settings at the controller. According to my source at Tongsheng, they don’t specifically manufacture a 52v version and all the 52v versions sold have modified firmware (by the vendors). I would assume that considering 48v and 52v batteries usually have the same (or very close) low voltage cut-off points that the controller would be configured to reflect this.

          Let me know what they say, as it would be useful to know.

          Many thanks,
          Tony

          Reply
          • October 16, 2020 at 11:37 pm
            Permalink

            Hi Tony,
            I sent a message to a seller on AliExpress- Ebird Store, asking whether I could fit a 48V battery to a 52V motor. I also asked if there is a voltage cutoff on the controller. The only reply I got was “52V motor only fit 52v battery ,pls note”.
            To be honest, it looks as though I will have to buy a kit and find out for myself!
            Best wishes,
            Julian

          • October 17, 2020 at 9:18 am
            Permalink

            Hi Julian,

            That’s a very vague reply from the seller! I know you definitely can’t use a 52v battery with the 48v version as the ‘over voltage’ protection comes into play. There’s only 4.4v difference between a fully charged 52v and 48v and if you look at the specs of most 52v batteries the low voltage cut-off always seems to be between 39v-41v. Let me know how it works out, and if you have any issues using a 48v battery.

            Many thanks,
            Tony

  • October 12, 2020 at 8:23 pm
    Permalink

    Hi tony
    I’m coming back to you about my orbea katu conversion.
    This bike has a sturmey archer 5 speed hub. Will it go good with the tsdz2?
    I’m thinking of buying the 750w. Should I go for a less powerful version?
    I would like the vlcd6 version with throttle. Do you know where can I find it as a kit?
    Thank you once again
    Mário

    Reply
    • October 12, 2020 at 9:14 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Mario,

      Although I haven’t worked on a bike with the Sturmey Archer RX-RK5, I believe it’s quite reliable and okay to use with a mid-drive motor. I have installed the TSDZ2 on bikes with the Shimano Nexus hub gears without any issues, so I would assume there shouldn’t be any problems with the Sturmey Archer. Here is a link to a thread on endless-sphere that mentions the RX-RK5. The 750w motor should be okay as long as you stop / ease off pedalling when you change gear. Shifting when under load (from the motor) is likely to reduce the service life of the hub. There is a supplier on Aliexpress that has the 750w 48v version in Poland (with thumb throttle) but they only supply with the VLCD5 display. Here is a link to the listing. They do the version with the VLCD6 and thumb throttle but it is shipped from China.

      I hope this helps.

      All the best,
      Tony

      Reply
  • September 18, 2020 at 5:26 pm
    Permalink

    Dear Tony,
    I need your help concerning the installation of the Tongsheng on a MTB with a press fit BB Shimano SM BB71-41. Looking on internet I can see there are 3 models shimano: BB71-41-A, BB71-41-B and BB71-41-C. Not sure which model is mine as there is no letter on it. They all have Pressfit Diameter 41mm bottom bracket Shell and Chain Wheel Axle Diameter 24mm. If I understand well the only difference between them is the Shell Width that go from 89.5 to 107mm. The BB installed on the bike measure 97mm, I did not removed yet. It is not clear from your site if I can buy an adapter on the site you linked (Aliexpress) or it is a work for a specialist. On that site I can identify the model named Pressfit PFGXP that seems to match mine, but it says ‘Shell Type: BB86 BB90’. Any advise/help on this? Kind regards,
    Fabio

    Reply
    • September 18, 2020 at 8:51 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Fabio,

      BB86 or BB90 would be very difficult indeed, and would require significant skilled engineering modifications to the bottom bracket area. The TSDZ2 was only really designed to fit a regular BSA threaded BB with a 68mm-73mm width and 33.6mm internal diameter.

      The other big problem with PF BB’s and the Tongsheng, is the design of the motor only allows for limited clearance between the motor shaft and housing. So even if you had (for example) a PF30 BB which is 68-73mm but with an internal diameter of 41mm and used a reducer shim, there would not be enough clearance to fit the motor.

      The best advice I can give is to find a donor bike that has a regular BSA threaded BB – Shimano Hollowtech II (or cartridge BB-UN55), SRAM GXP or FSA MegaExo.

      I hope this helps.

      Kind regards,
      Tony

      Reply
      • October 26, 2020 at 6:20 pm
        Permalink

        Hi Tony,

        My bike: Specialized Sirrus X 2.0 –
        Year: (2020)
        Frame size: Large

        Motor: TSDZ 48V

        I took it to a specialized bike shop and they said the motor does not fit into the crank :(. They said it can fit by filing down the bike but they don’t recommend that. Are there any other torque sensing kits that I could purchase? What do you think?

        Reply
        • October 27, 2020 at 10:03 am
          Permalink

          Hi,

          I have converted a couple of older Specialized Sirrus hybrids before and they were straightforward. But they had external cable routing. Looking at the specification of the 2020 Sirrus X 2.0 specification, the bottom bracket should be compatible (as it is a regular BSA threaded type). It may be the internal cable routing housing that’s getting in the way. I’ve had this issue with Cube Acid hardtail MTB’s before. The only other plug-and-play torque-sensing motor that I’m aware of is the Lingei LB-01, but I still couldn’t say whether this would fit your Sirrus or not (unless I had one in front of me). I’ve looked at photos of your bike on Specialized’s website and I can’t see any obvious reason why the TSDZ2 wouldn’t fit.

          Can you let me know where your LBS said the filing needed to be done, it’s possible that there are slight burrs / protrusions inside the bottom bracket shell, where the various tubes converge – filing these down to facilitate installation is quite normal.

          Regards,
          Tony

          Reply
    • October 6, 2020 at 11:10 am
      Permalink

      Hi Tony,

      Will the TSD2Z 750watt kit fit on a 202 specialized sirrus X hybrid frame (Large)

      Reply
      • October 6, 2020 at 7:46 pm
        Permalink

        Hi,

        Yes, the TSDZ2 will fit the Specialized Sirrus X hybrid. The only thing you may need to do is re-route the rear shifter and hydraulic brake cable (if it exits underneath the bottom bracket shell). Apart from that it should be a fairly straightforward conversion.

        Regards,
        Tony

        Reply
  • September 16, 2020 at 12:52 pm
    Permalink

    Value for Money

    9

    Ease of Installation

    9

    Reliability

    9

    Hi Tony

    I built an ebike from a Kona explosif 2005, a TSDZ2 48v 750w and a hailong 48v 13ah battery.
    I love it. It’s ideal for a morning in the woods nearby and i’m using it more and more instead of the car.
    I am 60 years old, so I wouldn’t be able to enjoy a ride in the mountains because to go there i have to climb a lot. With the TSDZ2 it’s sudenly possible again.
    Realy nice motor, friendly yet powerfull.
    Building it was easy. I have some experience from maintaining my bicycles but I am not a mechanic and I found very simple. I even managed to change a vlcd 5 to a a smaller vlcd6. Raly easy with the right cable.
    I´m thinking about building another project with a small orbea katu 50 and I’m afraid that the TSDZ2 750w will be too much power for the little bike.
    Can you give me a feed back about what would be the best motor for this build?
    Mid motor or hub motor?
    I came across the littokala cheap batteries on aliexpress. Do you have any experience with this batteries?
    Thank you very much for your site and all the really good and objective advise that I found in it.
    Without you it woud have much more difficult to choose the right converion and get to this nice bike.

    Kind Regards

    Mario Dias

    Reply
    • September 16, 2020 at 4:12 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Mario,

      I know someone from Denmark who converted a Katu using the 48v 500w TSDZ2 with excellent results. I believe their version had the Shimano Nexus 8 IGH. Apparently the conversion was fairly straightforward – here is a link to the battery pack that was used.

      Regarding the Liitokala batteries, I haven’t any personal experience with this brand, although having looked at the feedback on Aliexpress, they seem to be okay.

      If you need any more advice, please let me know.

      All the best,
      Tony

      Reply
  • September 11, 2020 at 10:21 am
    Permalink

    Hi, Tony,
    firstly congratulate you and thank you for all the information you provide on the web.
    My comment is because I would like to install in my old mountain bike (I don’t know what make it was) a 250W TSDZ2.
    I have measured my bike and the bottom bracket is made of Italian thread and measures 70mm in length and 36mm in diameter, so I am not sure if it is possible to mount the TSDZ2 on it.
    My intention is to use it to go to work on roads without many slopes. The distance to work is 25Km, which would be approximately 50Km round trip.
    This are my questions:
    – Can I install the 250W TSDZ2 on my old bike?
    – How many Ah should the battery buy to travel 50Km of distance, considering that I like to pedal and go with a slow cadence?
    – On the other hand, I have the doubt whether it is necessary to install the cutting brakes since in some kits they are included and in others they are not included. With which I do not know what difference there is between an engine without cutting brakes and with them.
    Well, see if you can give me a hand.
    Thank you very much in advance.
    Regards.

    Reply
    • September 11, 2020 at 6:56 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Miguel,

      Thank you for your compliments, much appreciated. I’m glad you’ve found my website useful.

      In answer to your question regarding compatibility – I have never installed a TSDZ2 on a bike with an Italian threaded bottom bracket, but I have checked the exact dimensions of the Italian BB and it is going to be just over 1mm too large in diameter, so you will need to make a shim to make the motor shaft a snug fit. The outer diameter of the Tongsheng motor shaft is approximately 34.5mm and can fit bottom bracket shells up to 73mm wide.

      If you decide to make a shim, you will need to bear in mind that there is very limited clearance between the motor shaft and housing, so if your rear derailleur cable is routed underneath the BB, you will need to re-route it.

      Regarding battery range, I would recommend at least a 36v 13Ah, but maybe go for a 36v 14.5Ah. If you go for a good quality 13Ah battery and you do not use full power constantly, then that should do the job. But if you would prefer having a bit of battery energy in reserve, I would go for a 14.5Ah.

      The Tongsheng does motor kit is only supplied with brake cut-off levers, if there is a throttle supplied. The normal pedal assist-only motor kit doesn’t need a brake cut-off as the motor can only be operated when force is applied through the pedals.

      I hope this information helps, if you have any more questions please let me know.

      Regards,
      Tony

      Reply
  • September 7, 2020 at 4:08 pm
    Permalink

    Value for Money

    10

    Ease of Installation

    10

    Reliability

    10

    Hi Tony,
    Thank you for your freely given advice and information on the site.
    Planning to do a 48V 500W Tongsheng conversion on a full suspension mtb so no room for battery on top of downtube.
    Thoughts on mounting battery below downtube (as in one of your customer’s photos)?
    Many thanks….Ian

    Reply
    • September 7, 2020 at 7:02 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Ian,

      It depends on the size of battery, frame geometry and how much travel your forks have. I did a Marin FS MTB a few years back and even with the battery as close to the Bottom bracket as possible the tyres still rubbed on the casing when braking hard on a descent. I reckon your best bet would be to get a compact bottle battery, they are available in 48v 7Ah which is a fairly low energy capacity, but it should still give you a range of around 30 miles or so. If you required more range, you could purchase a spare and keep it in a rucksack for longer days in the saddle. These batteries have an alloy casing so are more durable and are about the same size as a 1ltr sports bottle. You would probably need a couple of good velcro straps to hold it in place.

      If you need any more advice, please let me know.

      All the best,
      Tony

      Reply
    • September 13, 2020 at 5:14 am
      Permalink

      Hi Tony, You have helped me with my decision to buy the Tongsheng motor. I have a 2017 Giant Cypress DX extra small frame Ann was wondering if the 500w motor would fit. Also I’ve been looking at DHgate, they had a deal for the 500w motor with a 47v 15ah battery. Are they a reliable company? The suppler is greenergia.

      Reply
      • September 13, 2020 at 7:08 pm
        Permalink

        Hi David,

        The Tongsheng should be a straightforward installation on the Giant Cypress as all the rear cables run underneath the top tube. Because yours in an extra small frame, it would be worth measuring the available space in the frame triangle. Due to the sloping top tube it might be a tight fit getting a Hailong case battery in there. These batteries are usually 365mm (L) x 90mm (W) x 110mm (H).

        I’ve purchased kits from Greenergia before (through Aliexpress) and never had any issues with them, so you should be fine on purchasing from their DH Gate store.

        All the best,
        Tony

        Reply
  • September 6, 2020 at 11:26 am
    Permalink

    Value for Money

    10

    Ease of Installation

    10

    Reliability

    10

    Hi Tony,

    Thanks to the clear information on your website and the links to reliable suppliers, I have successfully converted my tired old Kona Hahanna into an E-Bike with the Tongshen TSDZ2 36V 350W motor and a
    36Volt Water Bottle Electric Bike Battery 36V 11.6Ah 418Wh from UPP.

    I Decided on the VLCD 5 as my display option as it has a nice clear LARGE numbers for my failing eyesight!!!

    In the settings menu there is an option to adjust the “Assist ratio”, the default is “16”.
    Would it harm the motor or battery if I was adjust this setting to the Max setting of “32”?

    I have tried it on the “32” setting and it seems more suited to the hilly enviroment where I live.

    Thanks for all the information you have supplied on this site, I would not have attempted to convert my bike had I not found you.

    Best Regards.

    Will.

    Reply
    • September 6, 2020 at 1:26 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Will,

      The ‘assist ratio’ setting alters the sensitivity of the pedal assist so it’s perfectly fine to change it to suit your needs.

      All the best,
      Tony

      Reply
  • September 5, 2020 at 5:07 pm
    Permalink

    Value for Money

    10

    Ease of Installation

    10

    Reliability

    9

    Hey, this website is incredible and helped me purchase both a TSDZ2 and a BBS02 with confidence, thank you!

    Side note: have you ever had issues with the speed sensor on the TSDZ2? Whenever it’s hooked up, I get no power assist, the speed shows somewhat accurate (adjusted wheel size in settings), and the trip meter adds mileage at a high rate (20-30 miles every 1 mile I ride). If I disconnect the speed sensor everything works great, just no speed readout.

    Reply
    • September 5, 2020 at 9:48 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Matthew,

      Glad you like the website, positive feedback is always appreciated.

      Regarding the issue you’re having with the speed sensor on the TSDZ2, have you checked alignment with the magnet and small arrow on the top of the sensor housing? Another thing that could cause the issue is the sensor being either too far or close to the magnet – ideally there needs to be roughly a 4-5mm gap.

      If both of the above are correct, then it may be worth checking to see if any of the pins are bent on the circular connector, failing that it may just be a faulty sensor.

      Let me know how it works out, and if I can give you any more advice, let me know.

      Cheers,
      Tony

      Reply
  • August 30, 2020 at 1:22 pm
    Permalink

    Hi Tony,
    Thanks so very much for this website and all the informative replies to comments!
    I’m planning to buy the Tongsheng 48v500wa with the water bottle style battery 48v10ah so that I can pull my son on the carrier from kindergarten up the hill back home.
    I’m checking my bike specs and I can’t see what kind of bottom bracket it has and wether it’s compatible with the TSD.
    This is my bike:

    https://www.cube.eu/en/2019/bikes/women/mountainbike/access-ws/cube-access-ws-pro-allroad-auberginenrose-2019/

    I saw a comment with a cube that had the “difficult” kind of bottom bracket but I have no idea if mine does too.
    Will it mainly work? Will I need to purchase additional parts so that it fits? Anything else I should consider? I’m hoping to have a friend put it on the bike 🚲⚡️

    Thanks so much 🙏🏻

    Reply
    • August 30, 2020 at 7:58 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Concha,

      The bottom bracket on your Cube should be a regular threaded type, so it will be compatible with the motor shaft on the TSDZ2. The only issues I’ve had converting Cube bikes is the rear gear cable will need to be re-routed as there will not be enough clearance between the motor housing and bottom bracket shell. The only other thing that may cause an issue is the alloy internal cable housing that runs on the underside of the downtube, you may need to file or cut a small section away to facilitate installation – this is usually necessary when installing a Bafang motor, but may not be required with the Tongsheng.

      I hope this helps, if you have any more questions please let me know.

      All the best,
      Tony

      Reply
      • August 31, 2020 at 5:58 pm
        Permalink

        Hi Tony, thanks so much!
        Yes, these are the cables that I see: cable 1 can be re routed, I guess along the red line on the second picture?
        Cables 2 and 3… can hardly be rerouted because as you say go in the internal tube… this is such an adventure!

        Reply
        • September 1, 2020 at 9:06 am
          Permalink

          Hi Concha,

          Thanks for the photos. It looks like cable 3 goes to the rear derailleur, cable 2 can be removed altogether as you won’t need the front derailleur as the TSDZ2 uses a single chainring, and cable 1 is the rear hydraulic brake hose – you will need to remove the brake caliper (while still attached to the hose) bring it under and around the chainstay so it is above the crank arm / axle. Cable 3 looks more problematic because even with the plastic cable guide removed you may still need to re-route above the motor. It is possible, but it’s a fiddly job and you will probably need to get a completely new gear cable inner with outer housing. It looks like you will have to carefully cut away a small portion of the alloy cable housing without damaging the main downtube – I use a small dremel electric tool with a mini disc cutter.

          You will also need a crank puller and Shimano bottom bracket removal tool and a long breaker bar. Removing the bottom bracket can require a lot of force and the bearing always unscrews towards the front of the bike so the left side unscrews anti-clockwise and the right side (crankset side) unscrews clockwise.

          I hope this helps, if you have any more questions please let me know.

          Regards,
          Tony

          Reply
  • August 27, 2020 at 11:04 am
    Permalink

    Hello Tony, I have a few questions if you don’t mind. I have an early 80s Raleigh 3 speed that I’d like to convert. I’ll be riding about 30-40 leisurely miles at most on fairly hilly cycle paths in the North East of England, and I weigh about 80kg. After much reading I’m still torn, and possibly even more confused, about which system to go for –
    36 volt or 48 volt. The battery I want to use is

    £147.48 51% Off | New Arrival Mini Bottle eBike Battery 48V 36V 10.5Ah 9Ah 7Ah With Samsung/Sanyo Li-ion Cell for 750W 500W 350W 250W Bafang Motor
    https://a.aliexpress.com/_BOAeDU

    As I understand it, 48V will run cooler and draw less current, so give more mileage. Unfortunately it’s only available in 7Ah. So question one is would I get more mileage out of a 36V 10.5Ah battery? I’m set on this style of battery as I intend to paint it (and the motor housing) to match the colour of the bike, and make it a little more in keeping with the aesthetics. Which brings me to my next question;
    Do you know of any cranks and chain rings available in chrome (or any silver) colour? I’d want to keep my chain case too, do you think that would be a problem?
    Lastly, I have a stand fitted to the frame about an inch behind the bottom bracket, will this interfere with mounting the motor? Any other potential issues I should be aware of? I’ve heard the cranks and bottom bracket can be a pig to remove so I’ll be taking it in for that job.
    Thank you very much for your time,
    Kind regards, John

    Reply
    • August 27, 2020 at 3:56 pm
      Permalink

      Hi John,

      Assuming your Raleigh uses a Sturmey Archer hub, then it may be possible your bike has an eccentric bottom bracket (with the pinch bolts underneath).If this is the case, then there’s going to be quite a bit of faffing around to get the motor to fit, and you may need to get an engineer to machine a shim so the motor is a snug fit. You will also need to carefully grind down the pinch bolt clamps. If it has a regular threaded bottom bracket you should be fine.

      If your kickstand is mounted directly behind the bottom bracket (where the chainstays meet the BB shell) you will need to remove it as this is where the motor securing plate would usually be mounted.

      Regarding the battery, a 48v 7Ah (336Wh) has only marginally less energy capacity than a 36v 10.5Ah (378Wh). You’re correct that the higher voltage battery will require less current to achieve the same power level and should also be slightly more efficient. 30-40 miles should be possible, but you would need to be frugal with the pedal assist. If you’re going to be tackling lots of long steep climbs then I would say you’d probably need a battery with a higher energy capacity. It depends on how much you plan on using the assist.

      I hope this info helps, if you have any more questions, please let me know.

      Regards,
      Tony

      Reply
        • August 27, 2020 at 7:36 pm
          Permalink

          Hi John,

          I checked out the link and the chainset SJS have is a 104 BCD so you will need an adaptor. These can be purchased from eBay in a matching polished alloy finish – here is the link. I can’t see any reason why you shouldn’t be able to keep the chain guard. You will need to use the supplied crank arms though (with the Tongsheng motor kit), but you can strip back the black coating and polish them to a matching finish with a polishing wheel.

          All the best,
          Tony

          Reply
          • August 28, 2020 at 9:03 am
            Permalink

            Thanks Tony, much appreciated

          • August 28, 2020 at 9:12 am
            Permalink

            You’re welcome. If you need any more advice let me know.

  • August 22, 2020 at 3:03 pm
    Permalink

    Have you ever installed the TongSheng motor on a Salsa Fargo?
    I have a 2018 utilizing a Rohloff hub. I think this would be a great system to add a mid-drive motor to, but don’t know of anyone who has done it with this set up.

    Reply
    • August 22, 2020 at 6:21 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Bill,

      I’ve never installed a Tongsheng on a Salsa Fargo, but looking at the frame specs on Salsa’s website the bottom bracket is a BSA 73mm threaded. The TSDZ2 should be a perfect fit unless you have an eccentric bottom bracket – I know some bikes that have Rohloff’s fitted as standard have these BB’s for chain / belt tensioning, if this is the case with your frameset, then it could be problematic as there is limited clearance on the motor (between the BB shaft and motor housing).

      If you need any more info, let me know.

      Cheers,
      Tony

      Reply
  • August 16, 2020 at 2:56 pm
    Permalink

    Hi Tony,

    I want to update my Cannondale Super V 600 Fully withe the TSDZ2 set.

    But I cannot find a adapter for installing 3 parallel chainplates in the front for using 34-42-52.

    Thanks for feedback,

    Axel

    Reply
    • August 17, 2020 at 10:10 am
      Permalink

      Hi Axel,

      I think you will have trouble fitting a triple chainring on the Tongsheng. I’m not aware of an adaptor that supports this. If you could do it, the chain-line on the outer ring would be too offset and would effect shifting performance. I would be inclined to settle for a single chainring (5-bolt 110BCD) and maybe change the rear cassette to a 10-speed 11-36 or even 11-42 – if you fitted the latter option you would want something like a Shimano Deore M6000 rear derailluer or you could use a regular Deore XT 10-speed derailleur with a Wolftooth hanger extender.

      I hope this helps, if you need any more info please let me know.

      Cheers,
      Tony

      Reply
      • August 17, 2020 at 1:32 pm
        Permalink

        Hi Tony,

        thanks for your Feedback. I see also a Problem with the locking of the Motor at the Cannondale Fully, because you cannot use the normal locking block with the screw to fix the Motor against Rotation.

        Do you see here a Problem?

        Cheers

        Axel

        Reply
        • August 17, 2020 at 2:29 pm
          Permalink

          Hi Axel,

          Yes, the locking of the motor can be a problem. I have used heavy duty steel jubilee clips in the past – it’s a workaround but looks a bit messy. If you know a decent engineer, it would be possible to fabricate something that clamps on to the lower seat tube (where it meets the bottom bracket shell).

          On the Whyte full suspension MTB TSDZ2 conversion, I used Jubilee clips – that was over a year ago and the motor hasn’t moved, so it does work in most cases.

          Cheers,
          Tony

          Reply
  • August 12, 2020 at 8:20 pm
    Permalink

    Hi Tony, thanks a lot for your excellent review.
    I’m planning to use my Diamondback MTB as donor bike: here are the specs
    https://www.rei.com/product/876859/diamondback-overdrive-sport-29er-bike-2015

    Do you think the Tongsheng will fit considering the crankset (SR Suntour XCR, 44/32/22), the Bottom Bracket (Sealed cartridge) and the chain (KMC Z99)?

    How about the battery? Size? Type? Capacity?
    I’m still not sure about the power: I know just 250w is legal in Europe, I’m wondering if it’s enough for cross country and not extremely steep paths…

    Any suggestions will be welcomed!
    Thanks again

    Reply
    • August 13, 2020 at 8:39 am
      Permalink

      Hi Alessandro,

      The TSDZ2 should be a straightforward fit on your Diamondback MTB, the cable routing is across the top which will make installation easier. I would say the 250w is better suited to mild XC riding. In my experience if you are going to be doing a lot of steep climbs you may be better off with a Bafang BBS01B 250w as you can easily re-configure the controller settings to 18A and modify the pedal assist to be more (or less responsive).

      As far as battery size is concerned the standard Hailong case battery is 365mm (L) x 110mm (H) x 90mm (W) but there is a slightly smaller version that is 90mm (H). If you’re planning on longer rides you would be best to go for a 36v 17.5Ah as this will give you a range of around 100km.

      I hope this helps, if you need any more advice please let me know.

      All the best,
      Tony

      Reply
  • August 12, 2020 at 7:04 am
    Permalink

    Hi Tony,

    Many thanks for a great site stacked full of useful information. I am interested in the Tongsheng 250W on a hybrid conversion. I will be fitting a new chain and 11-40 cassette and would value your thoughts on chain selection. The Shimano and KMC e-bike specific chains are widely available and there may be others. Which chain do you find lasts longest?

    I realize that cycling style has a lot to do with this. I learnt to ride on a single speed bike in a hilly location, so developed strong legs and always used big gears on subsequent geared bikes. After 30 years I had knee trouble and had to learn to use the gears properly and spin with a cadence around 80, which builds up the muscles around the knee joint. As well as curing the knee problem, I found that my chain life was greatly increased.

    Reply
    • August 12, 2020 at 12:20 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Len,

      When I had a Decathlon Hybrid last year (Tongsheng TSDZ2 conversion) with an 11-40 10-speed rear cassette, I used a regular Shimano HG-X 10-speed chain, and found after 500 miles or so (with about 50’000ft of climbing), the chain was still excellent. I’m not entirely convinced that e-bike-specific chains are worth the extra money (over a good quality regular chain). Having said that, I have fitted a Connex and KMC e-bike chain on a couple of conversions and according to the customers they are holding up very well after 1500 miles. I serviced a Voodoo MTB recently fitted with a 1000w Bafang BBSHD mid-drive and the original KMC X10 chain still lasted nearly 2000 miles.

      I hope this helps, if you need any more info, please let me know.

      Cheers,
      Tony

      Reply
  • August 11, 2020 at 6:02 pm
    Permalink

    Hi again Tony,
    Many thanks for your help again ,but now i have a real headache. After your comments about fitting the battery i was fancying into the 17″ frame on my bike,I decided that a meausurement taking session was needed and proceeded to make a template to see what fitted.
    The 17.5 ah samsung cell is a tight fit at 370mm long and the lg cell equivilant and the samsung 14.5 ah cells are only 5 mm shorter. So not a lot of size difference and i would like as many ah as possible ,the heights are the same at 110 mm also and width pretty much the same also.
    Which brings me to my main question. Th top of these batterys appear to have a sloping front end which would give me a bit of wriggle room to play with. with the slope they would fit in the frame ok. But by the looks they have to slide down onto mounting plate to engage with terminals. Do you have any idea how much they would have to move forward of the mounting plate to go over it? I can maybe squeeze a couple of cm spare before hitting the frame. The template which was tight was made as a rectangle of the stated dimensions without allowing for the sloping top if you see what i mean. Sorry to have to pick your brains but as you can appreciate if it dont fit im up the east looe river without a paddle.Don’t really want to fit a rack as i’d like to keep bike looking as it is.
    thanks again Dave

    Reply
    • August 11, 2020 at 10:41 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Dave,

      I reckon you need at least a couple of inches extra up front in order to line the battery up with the runners on the mounting plate. There are side-exit batteries available that would definitely fit in, but due to the smaller size they’re only available in about 48v 10Ah maximum – here is a link to a UK supplier I know on eBay. The other option is to have a chat with Jimmy at ebikebatteries.co.uk. He’s the most knowledgeable person I know regarding e-bike batteries and he can custom-build battery packs.

      Let me know how you get on.

      Cheers,
      Tony

      Reply
      • August 12, 2020 at 3:07 pm
        Permalink

        Thank you Tony for your help, will look into it a bit more and will let you know the outcome of how i get around it.
        Dave

        Reply
        • August 12, 2020 at 5:08 pm
          Permalink

          You’re welcome.

          Reply
      • September 24, 2020 at 3:10 pm
        Permalink

        Hi Tony, An update on battery. I recieved my 17.5 ah battery from upp today and apart from the fact ill have to put one more insert into the frame a little higher up the downtube than where the standard one is ,I’m pleased to report that it is easily accomodated in the 17″ frame. The only problems that were encountered with fitting the motor to this bike was that i could have done with a couple of extra shims for it,but managed to fabricate one on my lathe.
        Apart from that fitting the speed sensor is a bit tight on space. It will be hard to maintain the 10-15mm gap between sensor and spoke magnet ,but did read in an earlier post that you said 4-5 mm. if this does not work is there anywhere you know of in the uk who sells an extension cable? Don’t think i can wait another month to get one from China.

        Reply
        • September 24, 2020 at 7:25 pm
          Permalink

          Hi Dave,

          If you have the large Hailong case battery, there is a way to mount the battery without needing to drill and add another riv-nut into the frame. You need to remove the rear cover (on the battery mounting plate, secured with 4 x small screws). If you have the latest version of the battery there should be a slot visible on the underside of the alloy mounting plate, if there isn’t a slot you can drill one to accommodate the Allen bolt. Here is a link to one of my YT videos showing how it’s done (the battery mounting section starts at 5 mins 40 secs).

          Regarding the speed sensor – a 5mm gap between the magnet and sensor seems to be just right, much further or closer and it doesn’t work properly. I’ve had a good look on eBay and Amazon UK and the only cables available are shipped from China, I’ve tried a couple of the European suppliers but none are in stock.

          Let me know how the build goes and what you think if the motor.

          Cheers,
          Tony

          Reply
          • October 5, 2020 at 8:01 pm
            Permalink

            Value for Money

            9.5

            Ease of Installation

            8

            Reliability

            10

            Hi Tony.
            Yes i used the method that you described and fitted an extra fixing there, which really makes for a strong fitting. With regards to the sensor i took the mounting bracket apart and with the use of some double sided tape and cable ties have it all working fine with a good gap as you recommended.
            I must say how impressed i am with the tongsheng, it’s quiet and the power is more than adequate for coping with the best hills the south wales valleys have! I am making the most out of using full power at the moment in an effort to drain the 17.5mah battery so i can cycle it a few times and i’m amazed that after 30 odd miles of hard uphill use it’s still at two thirds capacity! To top it all my friend who is an ardent downhiller and has just spent 5k on a new specialized e-bike cant quite believe how good it is. In fact a few in my street think i’m tour de france material now! Again thank you for your invaluable advice,which without me finding this great site would have found me on the wrong path.
            I wish you continued success.
            Regards Dave.

          • October 6, 2020 at 8:16 am
            Permalink

            Hi Dave,

            Thanks for sharing, glad you’re enjoying your new ebike conversion. I’ve ridden a Tongsheng converted MTB and an expensive e-MTB back to back and there’s not a lot in it, if anything the TSDZ2 feels a bit livelier. You should get a really decent range from your battery, I’ve found the Tongsheng is very efficient.

            Glad you’ve found my site useful. If you need any advice in future, give me a shout.

            All the best,
            Tony

  • August 10, 2020 at 8:38 pm
    Permalink

    Hi Tony.
    Can i first thank you for the review and invaluable help these pages have provided for me and no doubt many others.It is indeed a rare thing to get an honest unbiased professional opinion like this.
    I would appreciate any input you could give me regarding the choices i have made. I am planing on fitting a TSDZ2 to my 2010 specialized hard rock pro disc mtb. I plan to use a 17.5ah samsung cell 48v battery ,on the 750w version. i am going to use the trusted suppliers that you provided links to as they seem to be reputable enough for you ,thats good enough for me .My bike has a 17″ frame and i wonder if you can forsee any problems with this set up? The other question i have is regarding using upp for the battery they say on aliexpress that they can ship from germany but when you click on the german shipping option the 17,5 ah battery does not seem to be available there, does this mean it can only come from china warehouse? I intend buying the motor kit off ebay using elifebike and would like to get both items at roughly the same time if possible.
    Thanks again for a brilliant review which has pointed me in the right direction for my needs.I definitely would have bought the wrong conversion for me without your guidance.
    Dave.

    Reply
    • August 11, 2020 at 8:23 am
      Permalink

      Hi Dave,

      Thank you for your compliments, glad you’ve found my website useful.

      In answer to your question, I’ve had a look at the specification of the Specialized Hardrock Pro, and it looks like it should be a fairly straightforward conversion. It looks like the rear derailleur cable is routed along the top so you won’t need to worry about re-routing that. The only possible issue I can see is you may be restricted in battery size due to the smaller frame size. The standard Hailong battery case is 365mm (L) x 90mm (W) x 110mm (H) it would be worth taking the dimensions of your frame triangle to make sure it will fit, otherwise you may need to compromise and fit a smaller battery.

      Elifebike on eBay are a dependable supplier, I’ve had loads of Bafang units off them over the years. BatteryempireUK are a good store on eBay, I’ve had quite a few batteries off them over the last year and no problems to date. If you don’t mind waiting a couple of weeks, speak to Jimmy at ebikebatteries.co.uk. His batteries are quite expensive, but they are assembled in the UK using the highest standards. I’ve just serviced a Voodoo MTB fitted with a Bafang BBSHD and one of his batteries that is over 3 years old and 4000 miles in and it is still showing 54.4v on the multimeter!

      I hope this information helps, if you need any more advice, please let me know.

      Cheers,
      Tony

      Reply
  • August 2, 2020 at 1:37 pm
    Permalink

    I am going to convert my fatbike using a Tongshen motor kit, but have a couple of questions I hope you can help with…..
    The bottom bracket is 100mm, I have looked online, and it seems there is an extension pieace that you can buy, but do I need a special tool to fit it? The only video I have found seems to show a specially machined tool used for aligning the extension and bearing…..or have I got that wrong?
    I have ridden a couple of Bosch motored e mountain bikes, and found the performance perfectly adequate for my needs, so does the Tongsheng motor produce similar power? I am happy to pedal and want the motor to assist on climbs, so want to keep the weight/price down as much as possible. The last bike I rode had a 250w Bosch motor and 650Wh battery, which seemed a good combination, what would the nearest equivalent Tongsheng setup to that?
    Thanks in advance, and thank you for a great website, really helpful and informative..

    Reply
    • August 2, 2020 at 8:56 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Peter,

      I’ve never performed this conversion myself, but from the information available you will need to tap your existing axle shaft with 30.2mm thread – there is more information on this on the eco-bike.com website (including installation video). You will need the services of an engineer with the appropriate tooling to do this job properly.

      The 250w Tongsheng motor is very similar in performance / torque output to the Bosch CX motor – I wouldn’t say it’s quite as smooth or as quiet (as the Bosch), but it’s about as close as you’re going to get with a retro-fit mid-drive conversion. Apparently re-programming the firmware can bring the TSDZ2 very close to the Bosch in terms of overall feel, but having ridden a Bosch e-bike and Tongsheng e-bike on the same day, I would say the difference is negligible.

      As far as battery is concerned to get the Wh (watt hour figure) you multiply the voltage (V) by amp hours (Ah) so a 36v 17.5Ah battery would give you 630Wh. I have purchased over 100 batteries from UPP direct from China, delivery takes 14-21 days, but they use decent cells and I have very rarely had any issues. Here is a link to a suitable battery from their eBay UK store.

      I hope this information helps, if you need any more advice let me know.

      Cheers,
      Tony

      Reply
      • August 3, 2020 at 7:40 am
        Permalink

        Thanks for the quick reply Tony.
        Sounds like it’s doable, but I will need to call in a few favours from engineer friends!!
        If I manage to get the conversion done successfully, I’ll post up on here in case anyone else is thinking of having a go.
        Regards
        Pete

        Reply
        • August 3, 2020 at 8:48 am
          Permalink

          Hi Peter,

          Thanks, please do. I do have some photographs from a French reader, who did a similar conversion using the Tongsheng on a full suspension mountain bike with a wide pressfit bottom bracket. I’ll try and find them and post on the article.

          All the best,
          Tony

          Reply
  • July 28, 2020 at 9:31 am
    Permalink

    Hi Tony, thank you for your extremely informative website.
    I plan to convert my Scott Sub Cross with the Tongsheng 250w motor. Right now I can’t see the manual on the page https://ebikechoices.com/nl/tongsheng-tsdz2-installation-manual/?ao_noptimize=1, it continues to indicate “loading”. Can I see the manual elsewhere? I think it would help me a lot with the installation!

    Because I have a female model, unfortunately there is little space for the battery. My eye fell on this bottle model battery (https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/32951953473.html?spm=a2g0z.12010612.8148356.3.22553ab19lim9Y), do you have experience with this battery? And would you recommend the 48v or the 36v version? What would you expect from the range?
    Thank you very much for your help!

    Best,
    Patty

    Reply
    • July 28, 2020 at 2:34 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Patty,

      I just checked on the page and the manual does upload (eventually!) If you still can’t get it to work try this one.

      The battery in question comes from UPP, which is a supplier I have purchased well over a hundred batteries from in the past. Their compact bottle batteries have always proved to be very reliable. The 48v TSDZ2 using the 48v 7Ah bottle battery should give you a potential range of around 30 – 40 miles, but this will really depend on the power output you decide on (and how often you use turbo mode). The Tongsheng is the most efficient e-bike motor kit you can buy, so you should be okay. If you required a longer range it may be worth buying a higher powered rack battery or maybe a second bottle battery.

      I hope this helps, if you need any more advice, please let me know.

      All the best,
      Tony

      Reply
  • July 25, 2020 at 7:16 pm
    Permalink

    Hi Tony after looking on your website and reviews I’ve gone for a Tongsheng 750 watt. I went for it after seeing it was more like a Bosch style motor. I started my strip down and rebuild last night on my donor bike. The motor and battery arrived today so I hope to get it fitted tomorrow. Great site loads of good information!!

    Reply
    • July 25, 2020 at 9:04 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Matt,

      Glad you’ve found my site useful. Good feedback is always appreciated. Let me know how the build goes, and if you need any help or advice feel free to contact me through this site or Facebook.

      Cheers,
      Tony

      Reply
  • July 21, 2020 at 8:24 am
    Permalink

    Hi

    Firstly thank you for all your work on this review it’s very helpful.

    I own a 2015 Scott sub comfort 10 with a coaster brake and would like to install a 500w motor, my bike spec is exactly as on the following page, would you Mind taking a look at the detailed spec and advising me on whether I can fit the tsdz2 to my cycle, the link is. https://www.thebikelist.co.uk/scott/sub-comfort-10-men
    Thank you in advance

    Reply
    • July 21, 2020 at 7:56 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Robin,

      I’ve had a look at the specification of your bike and I don’t see any obvious reason why the TSDZ2 shouldn’t fit. The bottom bracket is a standard Shimano cartridge-type which suggests the Tongsheng should fit.

      As your bike has a coaster brake, you will need to purchase the coaster brake-specific version of the Tongsheng motor. In my experience the TSDZ2 works well with the Shimano Nexus 8 geared hub.

      I hope this helps, if you need any more advice regarding installation, please let me know.

      All the best,
      Tony

      Reply
  • July 2, 2020 at 6:50 pm
    Permalink

    Hello! Really appreciate your in-depth treatment of these products. It’s more detailed and helpful than most stores who sell them. I’m looking to buy a new bike fairly soon, and am trying to make sure that it’d be possible to install an e-bike kit on it in the future, should the desire strike me. The two models I’m considering appear to have the following bottom brackets:
    https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/product/component/deorext-m8000/BB-MT800.html
    https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/product/component/shimano/BB-UN55.html
    Would they be compatible with the TSDZ2?

    Reply
    • July 2, 2020 at 11:49 pm
      Permalink

      Hi John,

      Both of those bottom brackets fit a standard 68mm-73mm threaded BB shell so the bikes should be compatible with the TSDZ2. The only thing you may need to do is re-route the rear gear shifter cable, as there is minimal clearance between the motor shaft and housing.

      If you need any more info, please let me know.

      Regards,
      Tony

      Reply
  • June 29, 2020 at 1:33 pm
    Permalink

    Hello Tony,
    Greetings from Czech Republic and thank you for a great and very informative review.
    I would like to install the TDSZ2 on my 10 years old Trek Navigator with 28 inch wheels. It is for me very difficult to decide which version I should buy. It seems to me that the legal limit is 250W / 25Km/h but I do not know is it enough for everyday use – mostly commuting, touring, sometimes up to hill?
    I borrowed a bike with Bafang – did not like the way it works. I guess the torque sensitive drive would be much better. I am getting old and have had some serious back problems. My doctor told me that I should use a bike (what I did before a lot), but I need some assistance when going up to hill or on unpaved road. Just can not press pedals with full force without filing pain in my back. I am pretty tall and weight some 95 kgs.Could you please advice me – would be the “legal” version the solution or should I install the more powerful 36V/500w or 48V/750W? Does the high power matter or is it important only when using a bike with high speed or in a very rough terrain (which I am not going to do anyway).
    I would appreciate any advice.
    Kind regards
    Jan

    Reply
    • June 29, 2020 at 2:22 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Jan,

      I found the 36v 500w version to be the best all-rounder. There’s not a lot of difference between the 250w and 500w in Eco and Tour modes, the extra power is more noticeable in Speed and Turbo mode. Personally I think the 250w offers enough power to cope comfortably with moderate climbs of 10%, I have gone up hills as steep as 20% and still had to put a fair bit of my own power through the pedals to keep the motor going. With the 500w version on the same 20% climb I still had to put in a fair effort, but it was a lot kinder to my legs.

      If you have any more questions, please let me know.

      All the best,
      Tony

      Reply
      • July 3, 2020 at 9:25 am
        Permalink

        Hi Tony,
        Thank you for your advice. Finally I decided to go with the basic 36V motor, try it and then possibly upgrade to 850C display and flash it with the Open Source Firmware. It should gives me the flexibility to fine tune the torque and power to my needs if necessary.
        I have some technical knowledge and experience so it shouldn’t be a problem to do it myself.
        Do you think is it a good choice?
        Have a nice weekend
        Jan

        Reply
        • July 3, 2020 at 9:57 am
          Permalink

          Hi Jan,

          Yes, the Open Source Firmware seems to work very well and can make the motor smoother and more efficient.

          please let me know how it goes.

          All the best,
          Tony

          Reply
  • June 24, 2020 at 1:57 pm
    Permalink

    I tried to install the motor for my MTB. But I couldn’t. Because the gap between motor and BB is narrow. My bike frame around BB is thick,just current ordinary type. So it seems that the motor is only for old or commute bike not for sports bike. I’m dissapointed and the motor need more update and developnent if use for modern sports bike.

    Reply
    • June 24, 2020 at 5:02 pm
      Permalink

      I would agree with you that the clearance between the shaft and motor is too narrow. I usually need to re-route gear cables even when fitting to a regular hybrid frame. Tongsheng definitely need to re-design the motor to accommodate modern designs.

      Reply
  • June 20, 2020 at 11:29 am
    Permalink

    hi everyone and Hi Tony,
    After a Long Time I am looking to a new project. I have already asked your advice with bbshd Tony but I tried one and it is more of a electrical scooter than bike riding.
    My problem is that I live in Swiss and I havr my work literally 300 m below my house it is a 4 min bike downhill with fully I commute twice a day… sometimes with kids behind in a chariot so I take a bafang hub motor 250w but it is not powerful enough. I mostly ride it with normal MTB uphill when I travel light.
    So my neighbor give me for free a brand new trekking bike and I wanted to transform it to an electrical bike.
    My question is 750w ok and Wich voltage would be enough 48 or 52? I search not speed but more something reliableI was thinking to put a smaller chainring 32 to not overheat the motor and Eve maybe put a 11-50 cassette by the way on AliExpress you can find really amazing cassette for old 8-10 gear Wich not even exist here in Europe I already have on on my MTB work great.I need more of torque speed is anyway not necessary 28kmh here is enough.
    So any suggestions for batteries and voltage and chainring
    Thanks for the help
    Fil

    Reply
    • June 20, 2020 at 3:10 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Filip,

      I would say a BBS02 750w running a 48v battery with the maximum current limited to 18A should be a fairly reliable set-up. You will need the USB programming lead and software. If you use ‘Karls special sauce’ programming parameters (but with current set at 18A) it will make for a very smooth and progressive pedal assist, it will also be kinder to the controller. I tried one of those large cassettes (11-40 8-speed) on my old touring bike and it worked very well with a Shimano Alivio derailleur – I just needed to adjust the ‘b’ screw a little. Regarding chainring, I reckon 32-34t will be ideal if you are not bothered about speed. French company Precialps do some great CNC machined Bafang chainrings and chainring adapters, their chainrings are as good as the Lekkie Bling Ring but a little cheaper – here is a link to their Bafang page.

      I hope you find this information useful.

      All the best,
      Tony

      Reply
  • June 4, 2020 at 6:37 pm
    Permalink

    Thank you for your page. I’m planning add electrical assist to my mountaint bike (Orbea Satellite 2013) and your reviews are helping a lot.
    I will have a 3’4km of big slope to run a lot of days (9% average) and the return with 1km (13% average) . Appart of that I will like drive in forest trails.

    I see the at Ebird shop and its available (from Spain) models 48V750W/500w and 36V/500w with the similar-same price. what of them you think its the best option?
    all of them are the same size? same noise?same resistance when are without battery?

    I think more Voltage, less Amp-> less hot, but i prefer to know if your impression if you have the opportunity of tested them (36V/48V)

    apart of that , to use the programing sowtware its possible with the VLCD6 or VLD5 or XH18? or is neccesary buy other display?

    and the final question, its possible add a second chainring? (i read that in i dont know where, im confused about its possible or not)

    Thank you very much!

    *Sorry for my english, its not my language 🙂

    Reply
    • June 4, 2020 at 9:08 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Alvaro,

      I’ve tested both versions, I have a 1.8km climb near me which is 143m of elevation with an average gradient of 8.6% (with the first 0.5km at 12.6%) both the 36v and 48v 500w handle the climb well, but I would agree that more volts, less amps would be better for efficiency and long-term reliability.

      I haven’t had a chance to try out the programming yet, but there is a version of the firmware available where you can use the standard displays (although you will not have all the functionality and programming options as using a KT-LCD3 display). Here is a link regarding this on endless-sphere.

      I’ve never fitted the double chainring, although I know people who have done it successfully, but they have had to limit the gear range on the rear cassette. The main problem is the offset of the motor.

      I hope this information helps, if you need any more advice, let me know.

      Cheers,
      Tony

      Reply
  • June 4, 2020 at 9:02 am
    Permalink

    Value for Money

    9

    Ease of Installation

    5

    Reliability

    8

    Hi Tony,
    Thanks to your site I bought a Tongsheng 48V 500W VLCD5 to upgrade my city bike.
    It was fun to build. Also I had some challenges to overcome. My Gazelle city bike has an incompatible bracket crankshaft diameter. It is too big and no conversion parts were available so I had to make something myself. I used some rubber tube of swimming pool parts and shoved it on the motor. Then I could fit it in the bracket. At the other end I hammered a self made oak wood tube into the bracket. And yes it fits.
    Another problem was I had to use a chain tensioner because I have Shimano Nexus 8. The old one didn’t fit because it is in the region of the motor. So I bought a Shimano alfine chain tensoner and something which I call a derailleurpad to fit it to the frame.
    Now it all looked ok but there was a strange thing. The first 5 km after loading the battery the motor doesn’t work. I found out that my battery charger is 54.6v that might be the problem? Anyway it didn’t damage the battery and I have used the bike already a 400 km. I also fitted a 44 teeth chain wheel for just a bit more speed. It feels very good and strong. With the 48V12.8AH battery I can drive about 80km it has LG cells.
    And SPD pedals were a great upgrade too very recommended for fast bikes.

    Reply
    • June 4, 2020 at 9:42 am
      Permalink

      Hi Marcel,

      Thanks for sharing your experiences. The Gazelle City Bike has a Thompson bottom bracket (which is 40mm diameter I think) you did well to install the TSDZ2 successfully. I installed a Bafang motor on a similar bike and had a shim machined out of alloy.

      Regarding the battery charger, a 48v battery fully charged is 54.6v so the charger is correct. 80km is a decent range from a 48v 12.8Ah battery, are you using in mainly ‘tour’ mode or higher?

      I definitely like SPD pedals, I started using them about 2 years ago. They took a couple of days to get used to, but now I couldn’t imagine riding without them.

      All the best,
      Tony

      Reply
      • June 6, 2020 at 5:08 pm
        Permalink

        “are you using in mainly ‘tour’ mode or higher?”
        Speed mode most of the time. The landscape is very flat here but also windy. I bought the kit for cycling to my work and now I’m working from home 😉

        Reply
  • June 1, 2020 at 3:12 pm
    Permalink

    Hi Tony,

    please excuse if my words sound a bit strange, I’m not native english speaking.

    I recently moved to the mountains and can’t handle climbing the slopes (up to 18%) on my own anymore. So I thought about fitting a Motor to my 1992 steel frame Koga Miyata. It is in good condition, no major rust and I’d love to continue using it.

    I thought first, a rear motor would fit nicely because i like it’s decency. But my weight and fitness level seem not to allow that option, system weight incl me is close to 280 lbs. So it’s gonna be a middle motor.

    Since I want to stay legal, I’m aiming at either TSDZ2 or BBS01B. I favour the TSDZ2 because of the torque sensor, but from what I’ve heard there are slight disadvantages I may not be willing to take. It’s the sound. Almost everywhere when searching for a comparison between both motors, I read that BBS01B is almost absolutely quiet, while the TSDZ2 comes with a more or less frequent occurring noise.

    I love about my bike very much the old silent clutch of the back wheel. Other than the sound of my wheels touching the ground, my bike is very silent. I fear changing this to a degree I wouldn’t like.

    What are your impressions on this? Is the TSDZ2 noisy? Also, have you come across of latest 2020 version and has this maybe changed?

    Thank you for your great reviews helping me steer through the pedelec jungle:)

    Thorsten

    Reply
    • June 2, 2020 at 9:51 am
      Permalink

      Hi Thorsten,

      Apologies for the delay in replying. In answer to your question the Bafang BBS01B 250w is much quieter than the Tongsheng. I have installed quite a few TSDZ2 motors in the last year and there seems to be quite a difference in noise levels from motor to motor. Some are fairly quiet and some are quite audible. The Bafang on the other hand is consistently quiet. I hope this helps. If you have any more questions, please let me know.

      All the best,
      Tony

      Reply
  • May 30, 2020 at 8:38 pm
    Permalink

    I have a Bafang fitted to my GT Grade and I do not like the lack of torque sensor so am thinking of swapping over to Tongsheng
    Can I just replace the Motor and use the Bafang wiring, LED and gear sensor

    Reply
    • May 30, 2020 at 9:49 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Mike,

      No, you will need to replace the whole kit. The Bafang and Tongsheng wiring looms are not interchangeable. You shouldn’t need to use a gear sensor with the Tongsheng due to the smoother way it produces its pedal assist.

      I hope this helps. If you need any more advice, let me know.

      Cheers,
      Tony

      Reply
      • May 31, 2020 at 3:59 am
        Permalink

        Hi, I couldn’t work out how to post my own thread so I hope it’s OK to hijack this one for a question. Firstly, the info on this thread is great so thank you. Just wondering on your opinion on converting a full suspension. I’m really eager to go the ebike route for trails and some smaller jumps etc but am worried about the ground clearance being an issue. Do you know roughly how much clearance I would lose just so I could get a gauge for whether I would be comfortable with the motor on my bike?

        Reply
        • May 31, 2020 at 11:51 am
          Permalink

          Hi Dan,

          I’ve converted quite a few full suss bikes using the Tongsheng, and clearance doesn’t seem to be too much of a problem. The motor will reduce the clearance beneath the bottom bracket by roughly 3 inches – it really depends on the kind of trails and jumps you’re going to be tackling. The Orange MTB in the article is used for DH riding in the Forest of Dean and the guy who did the conversion has said that the clearance isn’t an issue.

          If you have any more questions, let me know.

          Cheers,
          Tony

          Reply
  • May 29, 2020 at 10:02 am
    Permalink

    Hi Tony!
    I’m thinking of converting my one year old, seven shift cheap bike into electric, using a Tongsheng TSDZ2 engine, but I am a bit confused what to look for. The bike has footbrake and rimbrake on the frontwheel (with lever). The gears are Shimano Nexus so inside the back wheel. On some pages it says that TSDZ2 works with footbrakes but on others it says it doesnt. I have not seen any other marks or names that would indicate what kind of brakes it is for.
    Have you figured this out and can help me?

    Br, Anders

    Reply
    • May 29, 2020 at 4:48 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Anders,

      It sounds like your bike has a coaster brake, but it’s hard to know for sure without having the exact make and model (of the bicycle). The coaster brake engages by back pedalling. Here is a definition of a coaster brake on Sheldon Brown.

      If your bike does have a coaster brake, then there is a TSDZ2 model that will be compatible – here is a link to the coaster brake version.

      Please let me know if you need any more advice.

      All the best,
      Tony

      Reply
      • June 1, 2020 at 8:05 am
        Permalink

        Yes it definitely has a coaster brake. The bike is a Madison Monza (https://www.madison.fi/monza-7). But my question really is, how to find the right Tongsheng engine for these (you had a link to AliExpress, but if I want to search it from other pages). I mean, it seems that they all go with the TSDZ2 marks only? There is nothing in the marking that says it is for coaster brake other than in the text?

        /Anders

        Reply
        • June 1, 2020 at 2:10 pm
          Permalink

          Hi Anders,

          I’ve just checked the specification on your bike, but I couldn’t find the bottom bracket type. Do you know if it’s a standard square-tapered bottom bracket or is it an eccentric bottom bracket? Sometimes the latter is fitted to bicycles with an internal geared hub (for adjusting chain tension). If this is the case, you may not be able to fit the Tongsheng due to the limited clearance between the motor shaft and motor housing. I have just checked the link I posted in my last comment, and it is specifically for the coaster brake version of the TSDZ2, so it should be compatible.

          If you have any more questions, let me know.

          Regards,
          Tony

          Reply
    • May 30, 2020 at 8:15 pm
      Permalink

      Value for Money

      8.5

      Ease of Installation

      6

      Reliability

      0

      Hi Tony thanks for the great resources on your site. I built up an Ebike in March and now my bike buddies have asked me to help them do the same. We ordered 5 TSDZ2 motors from Ebird on AliExpress (they are very helpful). There is one question they have not been able to clear up. One motor of the 5 shipped is 36v 500 watt. I cannot see any indication of wattage on any of the motors. Can you help me figure out which motor is 500 watt?

      Reply
      • May 30, 2020 at 9:55 pm
        Permalink

        Hi Mike,

        Unfortunately, there are no discernible markings on the motor to differentiate between models. There should be something on the labels on the boxes (if you still have them).

        If you can’t identify which is which, you will need to install a couple of the motors, the 500w should feel more powerful in Speed and Turbo mode (but not noticeably different in Eco and Tour mode).

        If you need any more help, please let me know.

        All the best,
        Tony

        Reply
  • May 27, 2020 at 5:51 am
    Permalink

    Hi Tom, I have a Tongsheng TSDZ2 engine and have driven 3,500 km. When shifting gears, I hear a sound in the engine as if the engine is slipping (it doesn’t just growl faster). Can you advise me on what to do about it?

    Reply
    • May 27, 2020 at 9:03 am
      Permalink

      Hi Julio,

      I sounds to me like the blue primary gear may be slipping. Here is a quick video from YouTube detailing how to check the gear: https://youtu.be/6guf_4u6d1I

      Let me know how things go.

      All the best,
      Tony

      Reply
  • May 26, 2020 at 6:01 pm
    Permalink

    Value for Money

    9

    Ease of Installation

    6.5

    Reliability

    8.5

    Hi Tony,
    I’ve read everything written on this page (comments including), and I’m pretty confident that this is the best mid drive motor for me (as I’m looking for a cheap, over 100 km range motor). On Aliexpress I found 2 types of TSDZ2 xh18 and vlcd5. Which one should I buy? What is the difference between the two? Which store do ou buy from on Aliexpress? From China or Spain? Many thanks and don’t forget that you did a great job here, answering to all the questions to clarify loads of info! Good job!

    Reply
    • May 26, 2020 at 9:07 pm
      Permalink

      Hi,
      I personally prefer the VLCD6 which is the smallest display, but not available from all the vendors. If it was a choice between the XH18 and VLCD5 I would go with the LCD5. I’ve never personally used the XH18, but from what I have been told it is okay. If you’re buying from within the EU, ebird store on Aliexpress have always provided a good service. I have purchased many units from them and have not had any issues to date. Here is the link to their product page.

      Glad you like the site, and thank you for your positive comments, much appreciated.

      All the best,
      Tony

      Reply
      • May 29, 2020 at 11:00 am
        Permalink

        One more question, Tony. I followed your link for the battery section and I couldn’t find a 48v 17,5 Ah battery to fit inside my bike frame (it’s a small frame). I found a triangled one but it’s got 14A. Would a 48 V 750W motor work with a 48V 14Ah battery? I remember reading somewhere in your posts that this type of motor works with a battery within the range of 16 – 18 Ah. Would the 4 Ah have an effect on the power/range of the motor? Thanx.

        Reply
        • May 29, 2020 at 4:56 pm
          Permalink

          Hi Remus,

          The 14Ah battery would be fine. The Ah rating refers to ‘amp hours’ this is a unit of electrical charge and is different to the battery discharge capacity (current) in amps. Most 48v batteries have a continuous discharge rate of at least 25 amps, which will be more than enough for the TSDZ2.

          The higher the ‘Ah’ rating the greater the battery range. Here is a link to my electric bike batteries explained article which goes into a bit more detail about battery energy capacity.

          Regards,
          Tony

          Reply
      • May 29, 2020 at 1:05 pm
        Permalink

        I also thought about buying 2 batteries 36v 17.5 ah for the 48v 750x motor and use them both on long rides. … could this be a solution? Thanx.

        Reply
        • May 29, 2020 at 5:00 pm
          Permalink

          You wouldn’t be able to use 36v batteries with the 48v motor unless you reprogrammed the controller using the Open Source firmware.

          If you have any more questions, please let me know.

          All the best,
          Tony

          Reply
  • May 26, 2020 at 5:04 pm
    Permalink

    Hi Tony, me again……
    I have today ordered a kit via aliexpress [Blueenergia] and a battery from battery empire Uk. Thanks for you avice, it has really helped.

    I have just one other item to source but I need to check what to ask for as it is non-standard. This is a battery cable extension cable to go between battery cable and motor cable. Can you give any indication what to look for please.

    Cheers once again

    Bob

    Reply
    • May 27, 2020 at 7:52 am
      Permalink

      Hi Bob,

      When I install these motors on recumbent trikes,I have a couple of rolls of red and black positive / negative lead and I just extend the cable that way, using crimp connectors and heatshrink. You can get the correct cable from most auto stores or online from Amazon / eBay.

      Regards,
      Tony

      Reply
  • May 25, 2020 at 7:34 am
    Permalink

    Hi Tony and thanks for your site, really informative.
    I am looking to electrify my ICE Adventure Recumbent Trike as I have had 2 hip replacements and back trouble and am far more comfortable on my trike these days. Despite the above and advancing years I can still push the trike along ok but inclines and hills are a killer hence the assist. Perhaps you can assist with your perspective on a couple of questions.
    1. I’m not loooking for an effortless ride, just assistance for hills. Do you agree Tongsheng good choice.
    2. I’m leaning towards the 48v 250w as opposed to 36v from Woosh Bikes. Good choice? Note it is £335.
    3.If not above i’m just a little worried about Aliexpress as there are copier and fakers on there. What is your experience and where do you source yours.
    4. Cabling. With the motor on boom and planning battery on back of seat with display atop handlebars will i need to extend just the battery and sensor cables?
    5. I’m not looking for a super long distance battery as I don’t expect to over use and think keeping weight down sensible so something like a 10-12ah one was thought. Does this make sense and wehre would your source be.

    Many thanks again, stay safe

    Bob

    Reply
    • May 25, 2020 at 10:09 am
      Permalink

      Hi Bob,

      I’ve converted quite a few Ice Trikes using the Tongsheng, and personally I think it’s a great motor for a recumbent. The only downside is you are limited to a single chainring on the front which limits gear range and there is a perceivable increase in pedalling resistance when the motor is switched off.

      In my previous experiences with Woosh bikes they are a decent company and it should be a lot easier to get assistance if anything does fail prematurely on the motor.

      I buy all my Aliexpress motors from ebird store, who ship from within the EU and sell genuine TSDZ2 motors. To date, I have only had one blue gear failure out of nearly 40 installations (and that was on an MTB subjected to hard off-road use).

      The only extension leads you will need are battery and speed sensor. For mounting the display, I have found Ice Trikes own accessory mount to be good for mounting the display.

      The best compromise between lightweight small size, but reasonable range would be a 36v 10.5Ah compact bottle battery – this battery is about the size of a 1 litre cycling water bottle. I have customers report a potential range of up to 50 miles using this particular battery and have not had any issues reported to date. The battery in the link also uses Sanyo NCR18650GA cells, which are very good quality.

      I hope this information helps, if you need any more advice please let me know.

      Cheers,
      Tony

      Reply
      • May 25, 2020 at 11:39 am
        Permalink

        Many thanks Tony, much appreciated. I’ve been playing around with gear inches and do have a 9 – 32 tooth capreo cassette on back so high end I lose half a gear and normal cycling I virtually never use small front ring and typically use mid range on middle ring on hills. I’m assuming that is ok, so I could go to 42/32 front to rear on the new config.

        Can you give a steer on the 48v 250w TDS2 versus the 36V?

        Unfortunately batteries out of stock…..

        Cheers

        BOb

        Reply
        • May 25, 2020 at 9:37 pm
          Permalink

          Hi Bob,

          I have ridden both motors and to be honest as far as performance is concerned there doesn’t seem to be any discernible difference. The 48v version will be producing the same power as the 36v but drawing less current. There’s quite a few batteries available on eBay. Here is a link to a 48v 12.5Ah Hailong battery – I have purchased quite a few batteries from this particular supplier in the past.

          All the best,
          Tony

          Reply
  • May 13, 2020 at 10:03 am
    Permalink

    Hi Tony, everyone
    I have a couple of questions on the VLCD5 display setting.
    In the setup menu, what is the Power Setting (A) for – is to correlate with the battery power output?

    What are the pros and cons of adjusting this? I guess Im looking to see (at risk) of increasing this in a hope to increase the battery power draw and thus increase pedal or throttle assist.

    Reply
    • May 13, 2020 at 11:31 am
      Permalink

      Hi Andy,

      The power settings (A) on the VLCD5 display relates to the sensitivity of the torque sensor and not the current in amps – that is usually set in the firmware at 16A and can only be changed using the open source software.

      I have adjusted it up to 30 and it just seems to make the pedal assist more sensitive to changes in force.

      Cheers,
      Tony

      Reply
  • May 12, 2020 at 4:07 pm
    Permalink

    Hi Tony,

    Thanks for that great website. I am contemplating the idea to install a TSDZ2 on a Cube Hyde. I did a lot of research to try to address all the problems I might encounter before hand.
    I found a solution for most of them, but I am now facing one for which the solution might not that easy.
    The frame use an eccentric Bottom Bracket with pinch bolts…. Is that a hard “no go” with a TSDZ2 ?
    Here is the frame:
    https://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/cube-hyde-pro-frame-black-n-blue-695500

    One solution seems to cut the pinch bolts holders. Solder the bottom bracket and use an eccentric BB with an integrated locking mechanism like this one: https://cyclinic.com.au/products/cannondale-eccentric-bb

    Any other potential solutions you could think of ?

    Thanks
    Florian

    Reply
    • May 12, 2020 at 6:28 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Florian,

      The main problem with the TSDZ2 is there is minimal clearance between the motor shaft and motor housing, so you would definitely need to cut the pinch bolts. I have installed Bafang motor to bikes with eccentric BB’s like the one in the link, and as long as you set the shallow part of the BB at the bottom you may have just enough clearance – but it’s going to be tight.

      Regards,
      Tony

      Reply
      • May 12, 2020 at 6:57 pm
        Permalink

        Thanks for the answer Tony.
        Do you confirm the need for an eccentric BB with an integrated locking mechanism? Or the motor might lock it in place?

        Reply
        • May 13, 2020 at 7:59 am
          Permalink

          If you’re installing the TSDZ2, then there is a locking plate that straddles the area where the chainstays meet the bottom bracket shell. An 8mm Allen bolt goes down through the plate and screws into cast alloy piece on the motor unit. This should be sufficient to hold the motor in place. If you were fitting a Bafang, I would recommend getting the BB with the locking mechanism.

          Reply
          • May 13, 2020 at 10:47 am
            Permalink

            Great. Thanks a lot Tony.

            Another question, sorry 😀

            I am really interested in implementing the TSDZ2 because I am tempted by the “bionic” feeling it seems to give thanks to its torque sensor and being a mid drive kit, and the open source firmware. I am not necessarily in need of stiff heel climbing capability (in Paris). That said I do run into a lot of complications in that implementation because of the eccentric BB and the internal gear hub on the bike.
            A much easier and also cheaper implementation will be a front wheel hub but I never tested a front wheel hub bike. I am afraid that the “bionic” feeling won’t be there at all.

            Can a front wheel hub with a PAS torque sensor works/feels similar to the TSDZ2?

            Any front wheel hub motor with reprogramming capabilities and similar open source firmware than the TSDZ2 in mind ?

            Just out of curiosity what add-on are you using for the multi language (auto-translation) of your website ? WPML ?
            It works really well in French at least.

          • May 13, 2020 at 11:24 am
            Permalink

            Hi Florian,

            There is a torque-sensing system available (for hub motors), but it is only compatible with a standard threaded bottom bracket. If you could fabricate a BB adaptor it may work. You could use this in conjunction with a front or rear hub motor. It comes complete with a special controller and colour display – here is the link.

            The translator plug-in I’m using is called GTranslate – it works with WordPress sites and converts all existing URL’s and Keywords to 100’s of different languages. It also works on an SEO level – 80% of my traffic comes from non-English speaking countries. Here is a link, there is a free and paid version.

            All the best,
            Tony

  • May 12, 2020 at 3:20 pm
    Permalink

    Hi Tony
    In my TSDZ2 after 350 km there was a loud vibrating sound, Besides, everything works. I dismantled the engine and everything looks like new, I checked the bearings, sprockets and everything seems ok. The sound sometimes disappears and appears after 2-3 km. What could be the reason, could it be a blue wheel?

    This is the sound here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5wbv22t2og

    Reply
    • May 12, 2020 at 6:25 pm
      Permalink

      Hi,

      I just watched the video and it sounds like a poorly meshing gear. Did you manage to check the condition of the blue gear when you dismantled the motor? It would be worth a look. I’ve never had any issues with the blue gear personally, but they do sometimes fail prematurely.

      Let me know how you get on.

      Cheers,
      Tony

      Reply
  • May 1, 2020 at 4:18 am
    Permalink

    Really helpful article.
    But I’m disappointed that any mid-drive kits are only for square taper cranksets.
    I hope some company developed ISIS or direct mount in the future.

    Reply
    • May 1, 2020 at 8:25 am
      Permalink

      Hi,

      The only mid-drive kits that I’m aware of at the moment that use an ISIS BB are the Cyclone and CYC X1 Pro.

      Reply
      • May 1, 2020 at 10:08 am
        Permalink

        Thanks kind reply.
        I know another ISIS BB kit LIFT MTB and GNG electric.
        Those are pricy compare with big 2 brands.
        And I’m looking for a torque sensor type.
        I decide to wait next Gens.

        Reply
  • April 26, 2020 at 5:36 pm
    Permalink

    Hello Tony. I’m thinking about fitting this to an Islabike Beinn 29 which we have had for a few years and which my wife is very happy with. How can I tell whether it will fit?
    The bike has a cassette insert bottom bracket but I don’t know the sizes: I will have to ask Islabikes. We are looking for something which won’t add too much weight; it doesn’t need lots of torque or a huge battery and we definitely want a torque support rather than an on/off.

    The alternative is a Boardman HYB 8.9E but that it a lot of money…

    Reply
    • April 26, 2020 at 6:46 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Stephen,

      I’ve just found an old review from Cycling Weekly of the bike and looking at the specification it should be perfect for a TSDZ2. The bottom bracket is a regular 68mm-73mm sealed unit. The only thing you may have to do is re-route the rear shifter cable as there is rarely enough clearance between the bottom bracket shell and the motor to allow for cable routing. Apart from that it looks like an ideal donor bike.

      If you need any more advice, please let me know.

      Cheers,
      Tony

      Reply
  • March 6, 2020 at 8:21 am
    Permalink

    Hi Tony,
    As everyone says, a really helpful review and website.

    I’m currently recovering after a big operation which will leave me with one leg considerably weaker, maybe with only 50% of the power of the other. Thus I’m thinking about some e-assist, but I wondered if you had any thoughts on how this would work with the Tongsheng torque sensor? Specifically, if the torque I generate with my right leg is much less than my left, will the sensor change the level of assist between pedal strokes? That would leave me bunny-hopping along and make the assist process problematic. I’ve also wondered whether the Bafang cadence sensor would manage this better. Any ideas?

    Thanks
    Duncan

    Reply
    • March 6, 2020 at 3:11 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Duncan,

      In your case, I think a Bafang would be a better bet. The cadence pedal assist means you only need to turn the pedals to get assist (without applying any force). Also all Bafang kits come with a thumb throttle, so you can use the throttle to get going and then start pedalling. My friend has recently had a knee operation and that’s what he does.

      Another useful feature with the Bafang motor is it’s a lot easier to alter the pedal assist parameters (using free software and USB lead), you can alter the sensitivity of the assist, the start current and how quickly the power ramps up once pedalling starts. You can also increase the maximum current from 15 to 18 Amps (on the 250w), which will give you a bit more power to get going with and you can still cap the maximum power using the ‘keep current’ or ‘limit speed’ settings in pedal assist.

      Here is a link to the Bafang programming tutorial.

      If you need any more advice, please let me know.

      Regards,
      Tony

      Reply
  • February 21, 2020 at 2:43 pm
    Permalink

    Hi Tony,

    Great content – Thank you.
    I am considering getting TongSheng 48v 500w variant with VLDC5 display.
    I believe the display comes in two variants 6 / 8 pin.

    I have watched some vids online were the VLDC5 display is used to configure the region (ie EU)
    and to increase the speed where the motor assistance cuts out. I would certainly want to increase
    assist speed from 15mph to about 20-25. However some people are reporting that their version of
    The VLDC5 does not support this menu option. How do I ensure I get a version were I can update
    the max assist speed ?
    Paul

    Reply
    • February 21, 2020 at 11:11 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Paul,

      I haven’t personally come across a version of the V5LCD that can’t have the maximum assist speed changed, but it is possible due to increasing import regulations. I have just installed 2 TSDZ2 250w motors, they both had V5LCD displays and came from the supplier Ebird store on Aliexpress. Shipping time to the UK from Europe is about 3-4 working days. Both displays had configurable speed limits. There is a link to their store in the right hand sidebar on my site.

      If you have any more questions, please let me know.

      Regards,
      Tony

      Reply
  • February 4, 2020 at 12:50 pm
    Permalink

    hello,
    I have purchased and installed this drive and is working great with my cube aim pro.

    However recently i noticed that the drive started making a slight squeaking noise and the part that the sprocket is mounted on has a small looseness.

    I am reaching only about 600 miles on it, so the parts and bearings couldnt be wearing out yet i think…

    I checked and the sprocket’s bolts are tight, can you please let me know if there are there any hidden mounting bolts for the spline that the sprocket is attached to that i can check? or could it something else?

    I cant figure that out from the pictures in google.. I’m not sure if I’m missing something or i would need to disassemble the whole motor?

    Thanks for your help!

    Reply
    • February 4, 2020 at 9:59 pm
      Permalink

      Hi,

      A small amount of play in the chainring mounting plate is normal on the TSDZ2, I’ve installed over 30 and they all had a bit of play. I can only assume it is designed that way.

      As far a the squeaking noise is concerned, it could be caused by a number of things: Premature bearing wear is relatively rare, but not unheard of. If you line one of the pedal crank arms up with the chainstay and while holding the chainstay press inwards on the crank arm. A tiny little bit of play is normal, but if you have excess movement, it could mean the main crank bearing needs looking at. The Sprag clutch (on way bearing) has also been known to fail prematurely on occasion.

      If you need any further help, please let me know.

      Regards,
      Tony

      Reply
  • January 29, 2020 at 10:43 am
    Permalink

    Hi Tony,
    I installed the motor 100mm on my fat bike, but I should have opted for the 120mm instead because the Scott big Jon mont a very big tires, 4.8 and the frame is wide. The problem is infact that the left crank arm is too close to the frame, about 2mm. I wonder if you know a crank arm with more offset, in order to avoid the risk to touch the frame? For the right crank arm I will take the bafang one, with a low offset, so will reduce a bit the Q-factor. Any suggestion or workaroud?
    Best,
    Fabio

    Reply
    • January 29, 2020 at 11:47 am
      Permalink

      Hi Fabio,

      I have used a spacer previously on the motor axle to bring the crank arm out just enough to clear the chainstay, but i’m fairly sure there are crank arms available as a customer purchased one for his bike. I will contact the customer to find out the crank arm he used and get back to you later today.

      Regards,
      Tony

      Reply
      • August 12, 2020 at 11:27 am
        Permalink

        Hi Tony,
        did you happens to contact the customer to find out which crank arm I can use to have more offset?
        Thanks in advance,
        Fabio

        Reply
  • January 25, 2020 at 3:04 pm
    Permalink

    Hello.
    Thanks a lot for the great review and all the help in the comments. Sorry in advance for slaughtering english here and there-not my first language 😉
    I’m planing to buy TSDZ2 for my custom bike and there is some things that I’m concerned about.
    My frame is a lot different than a normal bike,so if I will be able to fit this motor on my bike,I will probably be forced to instal it in more of a vertical orientation than in horizontal (as it is instaled on normal frames)-is this an issue?
    Second potential problem is my bottom bracket. They state, that this mid drive is “designed to fit bikes with a 68mm (2.68 in.) or 73mm (2.87 in.) wide bottom bracket shell and 35mm inside diameter.” My bracket is 73 mm wide,so I’m fine here,but when it comes to the diameter…I got 35 mm inside (so again fine here) but it is made like this with the reducing adapter because the outside diameter of my bottom bracket is 58 mm-so the question is will TSDZ fit on a bracket that big?
    My hub is shimano nexus 3 with the break in pedals,so as I understand I’m limited to the 250/350W versions of TSDZ2 with coast/foot brake function. Question is will it be strong enough for my bike (which weighs about 35-40kg) and me (around 96-100kg) and will I not kill this motor right away with all that weight? 😀 I ride mostly on flat terrain with only few not so steep hills.
    Taking all the above under consideration what kind of range can I expect if I buy a 10,4 AH battery for that motor?

    Regards
    Ralph

    Reply
    • January 25, 2020 at 5:46 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Ralph,

      Thank you for you positive comments, glad you have found some useful info here.

      In answer to your question, I think it will be doubtful the TSDZ2 motor would fit due to the limited clearance between the motor shaft and housing. I once tried installing the TSDZ2 on a Dutch bike with a Thompson 40mm bottom bracket, and after I had a reducer shim machined, I still couldn’t fit the motor because of the limited clearance. To give you an idea of how little clearance there is, I usually need to remove the gear cable guides on some bikes (just to get the motor shaft into the BB shell).

      I’m not sure about having the motor installed vertically and how it would impact the torque-sensing pedal assist – I’ve never tried it so can’t say for sure.

      As you mention, the weight of your bike may cause problems. The TSDZ2 was designed for basic mountain / hybrid / city bikes weighing no more than around 15-20kg. It should be fine on the flat, but I know it can sometimes be unreliable on bikes that carry heavy loads (like cargo bikes).

      If you did manage to fit the motor, a good quality 36v 10.4ah battery should give you a range of around 40 miles, depending on the level of assist used.

      If you need any more advice, please let me know.

      Regards,
      Tony

      Reply
      • January 25, 2020 at 6:15 pm
        Permalink

        Tony,thank you for immediate reply and sharing your knowledge-you are a gentleman and a scholar dear sir 🙂
        Yeah,I thought there may be a problem to fit TSDZ to my bike. My friend is also interested in buying this motor for his normal bike,so if he will buy it then I will take it from him for a while and check how far I’m from instaling it.
        If not TSDZ then maybe you know about some other mid motor that can fit my bike and my weight needs?

        Regards
        Ralph

        Reply
        • January 25, 2020 at 6:30 pm
          Permalink

          Hi Ralph,

          The Cyclone kit would probably do the job. It’s not a particularly straightforward mid-drive installation, but they are very good motors. Here is a link to a supplier I know in the UK, there is also a European supplier in Greece – Google ‘turbobikekit’. If you search for Cyclone ebike kit installation on YouTube you wil get an idea of what’s involved.

          Regards,
          Tony

          Reply
          • January 25, 2020 at 6:41 pm
            Permalink

            Now thats interesting-never heard about those kits. Thank you again for all your help-hats off.

            Cheers
            Ralph

          • January 25, 2020 at 10:02 pm
            Permalink

            You’re welcome.

  • January 20, 2020 at 4:24 pm
    Permalink

    Value for Money

    10

    Ease of Installation

    9

    Reliability

    9

    Sorry, I didn’t mention which battery : 36V 20Ah 720Wh

    Reply
  • January 20, 2020 at 4:21 pm
    Permalink

    Value for Money

    10

    Ease of Installation

    9

    Reliability

    9

    Hi,
    Just my own experience with this motor (250 w), that I installed in April 2019 on an old dutch men bike.
    I have de rollerbrake compatible motor, wich means I can brake pedaling backwards !
    So far, and 1600 km done, no issue with anything. Only I had to tight screw the fixing bolts 800 km ago.
    I have it combined with a SRAM Automatix (tweaked) hub at the back wheel (28″), so I can enjoy two automatic gears, the first till 25 km/h and the second till roughly 40/45 km/h (yet you have to push on the pedals to get there…). Range with Turbo mode is around 80 km, on mostly flat roads. All works seamlessly. Would like to install another one on my Bullitt cargo bike, but I tried, it doesn’t fit, unfortunately, the tubes around the BB are too horizontal.
    Enjoy !

    Reply
    • January 20, 2020 at 6:32 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Pierre,
      Thank you for sharing your experience with the Tongsheng TSDZ2, much appreciated.

      Kind regards,
      Tony

      Reply
  • January 16, 2020 at 10:10 pm
    Permalink

    Is there any way to tell different versions apart? The sticker underneath the motor shows the voltage, but I can’t see any reference to wattage…

    Reply
    • January 17, 2020 at 10:18 am
      Permalink

      Tongsheng do not stamp the power output on the underside of their motors. The only difference between the 250w 36v, 350w and 500w 36v versions would be the firmware programming in the motor CPU.

      If you need any more advice, please let me know.

      Cheers,
      Tony

      Reply
  • January 15, 2020 at 6:54 pm
    Permalink

    What size are the crank arms?

    Reply
    • January 15, 2020 at 10:06 pm
      Permalink

      The crank arms supplied with the kit are 170mm, but the motor will take Bafang or Shimano Steps crank arms. The Bafang crank arms are available from 165mm to 175mm.

      Reply
  • January 14, 2020 at 8:39 am
    Permalink

    Hi Tony,
    I bought 2x motor tongsheng 48v 500w + 48v 13.5 Ah battery for my holland bike and fat bike. I have an issue with the motor on the fat bike: apparently when the battery is full charged the motor do not work at all, although the display is on. If I put the battery on the other bike and I do some few km (4-8) and then put the battery back on the fat bike the motor it works. It seems that the problem is with the electric board of the motor? Did you had similar issue? I bought the motor 1 month ago on the ebird store via Aliexpress, how you suggest me to proceed? Pity because when motors works fine, I have a lot of fun with the bikes!
    Thanks,
    Fabio

    Reply
    • January 14, 2020 at 9:41 am
      Permalink

      Hi Fabio,
      It sounds to me like the high voltage protection setting on the controller firmware (on the fat bike motor) is set a little too low. It’s not an issue I have come across before. I would recommend you contact ebird and return the motor, I believe they have a service centre in Europe.

      The other option is to use the Open Source Software, and try and diagnose the fault that way.

      Let me know how things go. In my experience with ebird, they are usually helpful when it comes to issues.

      Regards,
      Tony

      Reply
    • January 31, 2020 at 7:43 am
      Permalink

      Hi Fabio,
      I have the same motor and battery combination as you (48v 500w + 48v 13.5 Ah) and I also encountered the same problem as you (display is running, but motor refuses to run with fully charge battery). Did you find any solution for this problem?

      I am suspecting wrong resistor value in voltage divider before ADC input of the processor, or wrong constant for the HVC in firmware, but it just my untested suspicion.

      Thank you for your reply

      Frantisek

      Reply
      • August 12, 2020 at 12:34 pm
        Permalink

        Hi Frantisek,
        When I contacted the supplier the only solution was to ship the motor back to China at my costs, also not easy the communication as different languadge. I guess it is the firmware, so that using the Open source software should fix it, but whit some risks and costs. In the meantime, as I have 2 big front light + 1 rear, when the battery is fully charged and the motor do not start, I turn on the lights for 10 minutes so that the voltage of battery decrease a bit and is ok until the next charge. Or to buy a new controller for about 52 USD.
        Best,
        fabio

        Reply
  • January 1, 2020 at 7:52 pm
    Permalink

    Hi Tony
    Thank you for your very helpfull site. I’m writing from Portugal.
    I’m converting an old Kona explosif and I’m thinking of the TSDZ2 as the best option.
    I want to use as commuter and I’d like to do some mountain exploration. What do you think of using the 750w version, and not to be very limited in range what kind of battery should I use?

    Reply
    • January 2, 2020 at 8:45 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Mario,

      The 48v or 52v 750w TSDZ2 are both a good choice for hill climbing. I used to have a 36v 500w fitted to a hybrid, and could easily climb 25% gradients in tour mode.

      As far as battery is concerned, if you are going to be doing a lot of hill climbing, you would be better off with a 48v / 52v 17.5Ah battery for a decent range of 100-120kms.

      If you need any more advice, please let me know

      Regards,
      Tony

      Reply
  • December 29, 2019 at 5:33 pm
    Permalink

    Hi Tony
    This is a great website with loads of useful information and links, I am looking to convert two bikes to go on the back of our moterhome, but just starting with one , to see how it go,s
    I am planing to use a TSDZ2 48v 500w and probably 48v 12.5 ah battery
    I am planning to fit this to my wife’s mountain bike, but because of the step though frame it may be a problem, however I may end up swapping onto her road bike
    Do you think the motor/ battery combination is about right ? we are looking for reasonable pace and range

    Regards
    Phil

    Reply
    • December 30, 2019 at 3:55 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Phil,

      The 48v 500w motor combined with the 48v 12.5Ah battery should give you a fairly decent range. You should find ‘Tour’ mode will provide the best balance between performance and efficiency. I used to have a hybrid with a 36v 500w and I very rarely needed to go above tour mode (even with the steep hills in Cornwall).

      The only issue I can see with fitting the kit to a step-through is finding a suitable place to fit the battery. Also, if you have the rear derailleur cable running underneath the bottom bracket, you may need to remove the cable guide and re-route the cable, as there is limited clearance between the motor shaft and housing.

      If you need any more advice, let me know.

      Regards,
      Tony

      Reply
      • January 4, 2020 at 7:24 pm
        Permalink

        Thanks for the reply
        Yes the battery location may be a problem, all the kit should come next week so the fun will start
        I may end up fitting it to her road bike yet which would be a lot simpler

        Regards Phil

        Reply
        • March 9, 2020 at 10:39 pm
          Permalink

          Hi Tony
          I did install my setup on an old mountain bike but found the setup very heavy ,so to plan B
          I have installed two now, on light road bikes , one for me and the other for my wife
          It was bit of a challenge mounting the battery on the down tube because of the triangular shape, but go round it with a 3d printer

          We only done about 15 miles to test them using 50 tooth chain rings.
          But very impressed so far

          A question ,on the VLCD5
          How dose the assist ratio affect performance, can changing it damage the motor ,and what is the best setting ?

          Regards Phil

          Reply
          • March 10, 2020 at 8:57 am
            Permalink

            Hi Phil,

            The assist ratio can be set at values between 1 – 32 and is set at 16 by default. What it seems to do is alter the sensitivity of the torque sensor. The higher value will mean less pedalling force is required to active the motor. I have always left it on 16, but as far as I know, increasing it does not damage the motor.

            Regards,
            Tony

  • December 9, 2019 at 6:10 pm
    Permalink

    I ride a bacchetta aero carbon frame recumbent. I read somewhere electrifying carbon frames or forks is not recommended because of the high torque loads. Since this motor is torque sensed might this make it a possible option without needing to worry about over stressing? Also is possible to mount 2 chain rings?

    Reply
    • December 9, 2019 at 9:08 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Peter,

      The torque of the motor shouldn’t be an issue (with the 250w version), the main problem with mounting a mid-drive to a carbon frame is the area around the bottom bracket shell. The issue would be the clearance between the motor shaft and motor housing. You would need to remove your crankset and bottom bracket and take the measurement between the inner bottom bracket shell and the outer carbon frame (around the bottom bracket). If this measurement is much more than 5mm then things are going to be tight.

      Other issues I can foresee are the exaggerated q-factor (particularly on the crank side), and also the chainring offset may effect shifting quality. There is a double chainset available for the TSDZ2, but I would be inclined to stick with the 42t single and go for a wide-range rear cassette (like an 11-42) and long-cage derailleur. The q-factor can be reduced by using Shimano FC-E6000 crank arms (from a Shimano Steps motor).

      If you need any more advice, let me know.

      Regards,
      Tony

      Reply
  • December 3, 2019 at 9:48 pm
    Permalink

    Hallo,
    Is it possible to mount smaller chainring than 42T?

    Best regards,
    Martin

    Reply
    • December 3, 2019 at 11:14 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Martin,

      You can use a standard 110BCD chainring on the TSDZ2. I have fitted quite a few 34t and 36t chainrings in the past. The only problems I have come across is gear indexing can be difficult to get right (especially if you have a 9 – 11 speed rear cassette with a big gear range like 11-36 or 11-42). The standard TSDZ2 42t chainring is dished inwards slightly to compensate for the motor offset.

      I usually find SRAM chainrings do the job.

      Regards,
      Tony

      Reply
  • November 26, 2019 at 4:23 pm
    Permalink

    Hello Tony,
    I’m about to order a TSDZ2 motor from the links you provided in this article.
    I just have one question that I haven’t found an answear to about this motor. Is it waterproof? the motor itself I mean.

    Reply
    • November 26, 2019 at 7:12 pm
      Permalink

      Hi,

      In my experience it is water resistant, I have ridden a TSDZ2 equipped bike in heavy rain without any issues. I would not recommend fully submerging the motor though.

      Regards,
      Tony

      Reply
      • February 19, 2020 at 4:39 pm
        Permalink

        Value for Money

        8.5

        Ease of Installation

        8.5

        Reliability

        1

        Tony
        Thanks to your previous help I fitted a Bafang rear hub to my bike and then a TSDZ2 to my wifes. I changed from the Bafang mainly because of the pain of adapting the old brake handles with the Bafang and because the TSDZ2 was a much easier install overall. After ordering the TSD though I found out that a relative, a serious biker, had just had his identical unit fail in heavy rain, it worked again after he dried it out.
        My wife has only done 62 miles on the TSD and went out yesterday, wet roads, many puddles but no direct rain and the unit started cutting in and out intermittently, for 9 miles it stopped altogether and then partly came back. It looks as though it has had a lot of water splashed on it and , as I can not find any loose connections, I suspect that water ingress has had a bad effect on the electrics. I have not yet dismantled it but it does not look to be sealed at all from the outside where the cables enter. So my questions are 1) are these units really waterproof or are they designed for desert use only? and 2) could it be something else?

        Many thanks

        Colin

        Reply
        • February 19, 2020 at 10:41 pm
          Permalink

          Hi Colin,

          I haven’t had any customer reports of motors cutting out in wet weather (yet), but I have read some reports on forums that suggest this may be an issue. The exterior casing where the cables enter leads to an inner, sealed casing (where the motor controller is housed) the inner casing has a rubber gasket. I have ridden a TSDZ2 equipped bike on some very wet Cornish back roads (standing water, large puddles) and never had any issues, I also have a customer who uses his as a daily commuter without any problems. If the power is cutting in and out, it would be worth checking the gap between the speed sensor and magnet. If it is too close, the sensor will give an erratic reading causing the assist to stop/start frequently. The ideal gap is at least 5mm.

          If you can rule out the speed sensor, and the motor is still playing up. It would be worth removing the controller housing and checking the gasket. Some owners have checked this only to find the inner gasket has been poorly fitted, resulting in water ingress.

          Please let me know how things go.

          All the best,
          Tony

          Reply
  • November 26, 2019 at 9:38 am
    Permalink

    Hello Tony!

    I have had problems with crankshaft vibration, and noise.
    And if you roll the bike backwards, the motor locks, not completly but its some resistans. I wonder if it’s the nylon drive that’s giving up ….
    I have biked about 60 km in rough terrain though but did tried not too have the motor to work in low candence and high gear.
    If you have any ideas that are all welcome
    Kind regards
    Jocke

    Reply
    • November 26, 2019 at 2:40 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Jocke,

      It does sound like possible symptoms of blue gear issues. The vibrations can be a result of the gear not meshing properly with the pinion.

      It’s unusual to have one fail so quickly, but not unheard of. If you are confident in checking the gear out here is a YouTube link to a good instruction video of stripping the motor and inspecting the various parts. You do not need to completely dismantle the motor to check the blue gear.

      If it is the blue gear, I would take photos and send them to the supplier.

      Let me know how things go.

      Regards,
      Tony

      Reply
      • December 6, 2019 at 10:19 am
        Permalink

        Hello again!
        45 minutes and the motor is like new!
        Changed the blue gear to a brass gear and it was a damaged cog witch made the symptom.
        It was a fairly easy job(no parts left when I was finished!🤣)
        And noise level is about the same as before. Maybe little more of a metal sound but that’s not a bad thing, I’ll guess🤘
        I’m going to contact the seller and hear what they say, but the important thing is it the bike works again!
        Thank you for your help!!
        Kind regards
        Jocke

        Reply
        • December 6, 2019 at 11:24 am
          Permalink

          Hi Jocke,

          Glad you managed to get things sorted. The extra noise should become less noticeable after a few hundred kms.

          Definitely contact the seller to see if they can compensate you for the replacement part, take a photo of the damaged blue gear and send it to them.

          Glad to have been of assistance.

          All the best,
          Tony

          Reply
  • November 20, 2019 at 8:33 am
    Permalink

    Hello,
    Thanks for all the info on your site.
    I want to install the 36V 500W motor on my KONA HONZO chromoly hard tail.
    Will it work with frame ?
    I ride alot in trails,singletracks and rough terrain – will it stand this conditions ?
    Can it handle mud and wet conditions ?
    Thanks,
    T.Z

    Reply
    • November 20, 2019 at 7:26 pm
      Permalink

      Hi T.Z,

      I have checked the specification on your Kona, and depending on the age of your bike, it may or may not be compatible. According the the specification the 2015 CroMo Honza, had a Race Face bottom bracket, but it doesn’t specify the type. It needs to be a BSA threaded BB, no wider than 73mm.

      Regarding motor suitability, I know a few guys who use the TSDZ2 regularly off-road, in wet British weather and they have all needed to replace the blue gear at some stage, and there has been one broken torque sensor. No issues with water ingress, and they are pleased with the performance.

      Personally, I think the Bafang BBS02 36v 500w would be a better bet for off-road use. The motor is a bit more robust.

      If you need any more advice, let me know.

      Regards,
      Tony

      Reply
  • November 17, 2019 at 5:46 pm
    Permalink

    Value for Money

    8.5

    Ease of Installation

    10

    Reliability

    9.5

    Hi Tony, Always lots of great information from your site so I thought I would ask & add something. I converted my TSDZ2 36 volt/350 watt to the Brass Gear replacement in place of the blue Delrin sacrificial gear. So far about 1000 kms in varied conditions without any concerns. Initially the noise difference is quite noticeable but somewhere around the 600 – 700 km mark I noticed it has quietened right down to about where it was with the Blue Gear. Now my question. You often see E Bike kits which appear to be the exact same kit with different Power Ratings. I find it unlikely that Tongsheng as well as others make a 36 volt 250, 350 & 500 watt motor as well as a 48 volt 500 watt motor so I am wondering what gives? Do they actually make the same motor with different windings or are the Controllers just programmed differently? Is it possible to interchange motors & controllers with different wattage & voltage ratings from Tongsheng? Thank you for your answer.

    Reply
    • November 18, 2019 at 3:26 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Glen,

      Thanks for the update regarding the brass gear.

      In answer your question. As far as I am aware, the only difference seems to be the firmware programming. I have been doing some research on the open source firmware available for the TSDZ2, and it appears that you can run a 24v – 52v battery just by modifying some of the parameters (on the existing controller).

      The maximum current the motor can handle seems to be in the 16A – 18A range across the board. I have known people swap controllers to higher voltage versions without any issues. Apparently it is better to run the motor at a higher voltage, but lower current.

      All the best,
      Tony

      Reply
  • November 16, 2019 at 5:08 pm
    Permalink

    Hello!

    Great site here. Awesome information!

    I ordered a TSDZ2 kit from Aliexpress. When I opened the package, all parts were loose in the package. I became very skeptical and instead of installing everything, I thought about trying to start the kit without having everything settled on the bike.

    The kit does not start, and my wonder is if it might have to install it on the bike first? I connected all the cables but nothing screwed on the bike.

    The battery, by the way, looks ok. The indicator lights.

    Sincerely,
    Mattias

    Reply
    • November 16, 2019 at 10:23 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Mattias,

      You should still get the screen to power up if the system is connected, whether it is fitted to the bike or not. Does you version have the optional throttle control? If it is the pedal assist version, you would need to apply quite a lot of force to the pedals to get the motor to work.

      Let me know how things go.

      Regards,
      Tony

      Reply
      • November 18, 2019 at 2:29 pm
        Permalink

        I so much apprechiate your reply! I feel so lost in my lack of knowledge about this.

        The display doesn’t start at all. I think I will go to my nearest bike-mechanical to test the battery and maybe also test the kit with an other battery. Unfortunatly they don’t do this installing-the-kit to a bicycle thing.

        It’s the pedel assist version with coaster brake functionality.
        https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32843275113.html

        As you write, I realize that it could be the screen that is not functioning. Or the battery, or the motor, or some cabel… To bad China is not around the corner of my house…

        I try with my bicycle mechanics or I do need to return the kit. Hopefully they accept a return despite it was two months ago I ordered it.

        Once more thanks!

        Reply
        • November 18, 2019 at 3:40 pm
          Permalink

          Hi Mattias,

          It is worth checking the main connector between the display and motor is pushed together properly, and also check the pins in the connector. Also make sure the battery is mounted correctly (in its mounting plate) and switched on (if it has a switch).

          You test the battery voltage using a multimeter – an auto electrician should have one of these. Here is a useful link on how to test an ebike controller.

          Depending on the kind of display you have, I have had problems with the VLCD5 in the past (the on/off button).

          If you can’t get the kit to work, they should accept returns within 12 months.

          Let me know how things go.

          Regards,
          Tony

          Reply
          • May 30, 2020 at 1:28 pm
            Permalink

            Thanks for super helpfulness.
            I finally got the motor kit tho work. If it was my bad or some sort of a radial clearance, I’m not sure. Probably my mistake. I was about to check the battery and then when I connect the kit again it was working.
            Works great!
            Many thanks for support!

          • May 30, 2020 at 2:40 pm
            Permalink

            Hi Mattias,

            No worries, glad to have helped. Enjoy your bike!

            All the best,
            Tony

  • November 6, 2019 at 1:12 pm
    Permalink

    Value for Money

    8.5

    Ease of Installation

    8

    Reliability

    0

    Hi Tony
    Thanks for leading me into the Tongsheng motor! My Specialized FSR can climb and it was impossible before the Tongsheng install!?
    I mounted the battery pack under the down tube and it seems to work well. The 34t chainring makes the bike perfekt for offroading and topspeed is about 30km/h!?
    Now I want to convert my fat bike too, but I’ll guess the hardest part of that work is to persuade the mrs….
    Kind regards
    Jocke

    Reply
    • November 6, 2019 at 2:00 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Jocke,
      Thanks for the feedback. Glad to here everything went well with your conversion. A TSDZ2 would be a great option on a fat bike, a few suppliers are now offering the TSDZ2 with the extended motor shaft for 100mm / 120mm bottom brackets.
      All the best,
      Tony

      Reply
  • November 6, 2019 at 8:36 am
    Permalink

    Hi Tony,
    me again with a general question about batteries: My goal is to buy 2 TSDZ2 to install on 2 different bikes, and share 1 battery only. To do so I will need an additional ‘holder’ for battery, and cannot really find it, a part of 1 Haliong on ebay Uk or some empty kit of case + holder to fill with batteries. Do you have any idea on which brand and where eventually I can find an additional holder, without to buy another battery?
    Thanks again and kind regards,
    Fabio

    Reply
    • November 6, 2019 at 1:45 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Fabio,
      If you purchase the battery from UnitPackPower, and you contact them prior to making a purchase, they will send you an additional battery holder.
      Regards,
      Tony

      Reply
      • November 6, 2019 at 2:58 pm
        Permalink

        Great Tony!
        It tooks me a while and some exhange of emails with them to hopefully understand one to each other, but if is ok I will add 25 PCs of 1$, so 25$ for the item, with the link they send me in order to have 1 additional ‘battery fix plate and part’. You deserve a great beer, if you will ever pass by Bruxelles you are more than welcome!
        Best,
        Fabio

        Reply
        • November 6, 2019 at 7:18 pm
          Permalink

          Excellent! Glad you managed to get it sorted.

          All the best,
          Tony

          Reply
  • October 30, 2019 at 9:59 am
    Permalink

    Hi Tony,
    thanks for sharing all this info, very useful!
    Concerning the speed limiter, I leave in Belgium, on the AliExpress Ebird Store you suggested, it is written ’25km speed limiter’. Reading your review for the VLDC5 it shows that by default the speed is limited to 25km but can be setted up to 45km. I understand that if I wish to have more control on the OS I need to buy a different display such us KT-LCD3, but is the speed limiter setting always available on the VLDC5, or as the EU law, can be blocked to 25km, so that the only way is to go for the KT-LCD3?
    Regards,
    Fabio

    Reply
    • October 30, 2019 at 12:39 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Fabio,

      The speed limiter setting should always be available on the VLCD5. I have purchased many kits from Ebird store (I live in the UK) and you can always adjust the speed limit if required.

      If you need any more advice, please let me know.

      Regards,
      Tony

      Reply
  • October 29, 2019 at 8:55 pm
    Permalink

    Hi, question regarding using the TSDZ2 motor with a temperature sensor and open source firmware. I have been unable to find what the proper min/max threshold for high temperatures should be for this motor. I think I’ve been reading in general that ebike motors shouldn’t exceed 200 degrees. But is up to that temperature safe?

    Reply
    • October 30, 2019 at 10:38 am
      Permalink

      Hi Kyle,

      According to the information I could get off Endless-Sphere about 95c or 200F is the absolute maximum, but even at this temperature sustained over any distance, damage is going to occur. The main issue is the neodymium magnets will loose their magnetism beyond this temperate. Here is the link to the post on the OS firmware website.

      When using the OS firmware, I would limit the maximum current to 16A, and maximum voltage of 52v (58.8v fully charged). Anecdotal reports suggest the motor runs slightly cooler and is more efficient with the OS firmware, so it’s definitely worth trying.

      Regards,
      Tony

      Reply
  • October 10, 2019 at 11:46 am
    Permalink

    Thanks Tony,

    I’m fine with the mechanicals and I can follow wiring instructions, but electrics generally are a black art to me.

    I’ll be re-routing the cable – I’ve heard there’s not a lot of room between motor & bracket.

    Easy work of the long climbs is exactly what I’m after 🙂

    All the best, and happy trails,

    Will

    Reply
  • October 9, 2019 at 7:16 pm
    Permalink

    Thank you for this review. I’m on the verge of buying the Tongsheng 48V 250W TSDZ2 kit from Woosh Bikes to fit on my Voodoo Marasa. Is there any advantage in the 48v version over 36v? (They only offer the 48v version.)
    I’m wanting maximum torque rather than speed. I want to pedal, but to be honest what I’m looking for is the uphill stretches to feel not too much harder than pedalling on the flat. I’m old and tired. I live in Devon – it’s all hills..
    Regards,
    Will

    Reply
    • October 10, 2019 at 7:36 am
      Permalink

      Hi Will,

      I’m in South East Cornwall, so I know what you mean about those hills! I’ve fitted both the 36v and 48v version of the TSDZ2, and there isn’t a lot of noticeable difference between the two. I used the 36v version for a while and it made easy work of the long climbs up the Tamar Valley between Gunnislake and Tavistock. I found tour mode gave ample assist.

      Fitting to the Voodoo Marasa should be straightforward enough, but you may need to remove the cable guide that goes underneath the bottom bracket as there isn’t a lot of clearance between the motor shaft and housing. Apart from that, it should be a good fit.

      If you need any help with the installation, let me know.

      Regards,
      Tony

      Reply
  • October 6, 2019 at 11:06 am
    Permalink

    Hello!
    Thanks for the comprehensive reply!
    Well, I’ll go for the 250w motor and have bike legal(I’ll guess the motor kit are not CE certified and then it not legal anyway…..)
    What size of the chainring do you recommend? The 42T chainwheel seems a little to large for MTB riding. I have seen some sort of adapter to mount 104 size, 4 bolt chainring, do they work well?
    Regards
    Jocke

    Reply
    • October 6, 2019 at 4:15 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Jocke,

      You can use a standard 5-bolt 110BCD chainring. If you are using your bike for mainly off-road riding, I would go with a 32t. The 104BCD adapter would give you more choice of chainring, this adapter is fitted to the Orange full suspension bike in the article.

      Regards,
      Tony

      Reply
  • October 5, 2019 at 7:29 am
    Permalink

    Hi Tony!
    I need advice on which electric motor to choose. 36v 250w or 36v 500w, do you know the diffrens in torque? I think I prefer range before power but that might change,
    The bike is a Specialized big hit fsr II 2007, It’s fun downhill and slow when its flat terrain, uphill?? Just forget it 🙂
    I have tried a Scott Aspect 30 Ebike and its 250w motor was powerfull enough for me but is the Tongsheng similar in torque as the Bosch, Shimano? 250w is the max power to use in Sweden, onroad or offroad. But who cares 🙂

    Kind Regards
    Jocke

    Reply
    • October 5, 2019 at 5:40 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Jocke,

      There’s not a lot of difference in torque between the 250w and 500w model, I have ridden both, back to back and the 500w has more noticeable power in turbo mode. I used to get 80-100km range out of a 36v 500w TSDZ2 using a 36v13ah battery – 105kg rider with lots of steep climbs (using mainly tour mode).

      I have also ridden Bosch, Shimano Steps and Yamaha E-Bikes and I would say the torque on the TSDZ2 is comparable, although maybe the power delivery isn’t quite as smooth as on the Bosch. The manufacturer states 80nm for the TSDZ2 which is about the same as the Bosch CX motor.

      The only issue you will have fitting the kit on to your Specialized is there will be no way to secure the motor (using the plate and M8 bolt) I have used a large stainless steel hose clamp in the past, it works but doesn’t look too great. Also, you will need to mount the battery on the top tube, as there isn’t enough space anywhere else. You should be okay with bottom bracket clearance, as your bike uses a Howitzer threaded bottom bracket, and the rear shifter cable is routed away from the BB.

      If you need any more information, let me know.

      All the best,
      Tony

      Reply
  • October 3, 2019 at 7:15 pm
    Permalink

    Hi! Thanks for all the info. I just received two 52V / 4000 rpm motors and I can confirm that there is a significant resistance when turning the chainring by hand, when unplugged. That is not what I expected. Is there anything to do about it? Hope this goes away when plugged. Answer in a couple of weeks when the batteries arrive.

    Reply
    • October 3, 2019 at 9:48 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Mahé,

      I’ve had a few motors in the past (36v and 48v) that have seemed a bit stiff to turn when new, but after installation and a few miles they usually loosen up. My 36v 500w TSDZ2 hybrid felt the same when new, but now has minimal resistance with the motor switched of, but that has done nearly 1000km.

      Let me know how things go once the batteries arrive.

      All the best,
      Tony

      Reply
      • October 26, 2019 at 10:43 am
        Permalink

        Value for Money

        5

        Ease of Installation

        6.5

        Reliability

        1

        Hi Tony, indeed, the pedal resistance does not really matter any more once the battery is turned on — and compared to differences in slope in became the smallest of my concerns. Riding the ebike is a pleasant experience, but as I used it for my first real-world experience (10 km distance and 610 m elevation difference — I live in the mountains), the motor became very weak and hot and I had to stop for it to cool down. Maybe that’s because of the way I mounted it, against the bottom part of the frame a little rotated forward: the heat sink is quite poor. Probably I should try to mount a heat connector with the frame. Do you have any experience with overheating, and advice what to do against it? Thanks!

        Reply
        • October 26, 2019 at 2:46 pm
          Permalink

          Hi Mahé,

          I usually try and mount the motor so it is level. The longest climb I did on my 36v 500w TSDZ2 was around 300m elevation gain over 5km, and although the motor was warm it didn’t get too hot. I only used the ‘tour’ assist mode apart from one steep 15-20% section (when I used ‘turbo’ mode).

          I have seen reports on forums of other people experiencing the same issues when there are lots of long climbs. I have read that using the Flexible Opensource firmware from Casainho can make the motor more efficient and reduce the heat build-up on hills.

          All the best,
          Tony

          Reply
          • October 27, 2019 at 3:44 am
            Permalink

            Value for Money

            6.5

            Ease of Installation

            6.5

            Reliability

            5

            Thanks for your reply, yes I will try out the OS software. My feeling is that it is a good motor but a little overwhelmed in that environment of mine – where very steep sections are common, and the tentation to use turbo all the time is high. But it hasn’t said its last word yet. Another try of 5km, 400m steep slope in level 3 (out of 4, one under turbo), on my lowest / slowest gear (42 teeth front x 34 back) went better without need to stop, though quite warm at the end. Let’s see how the OS firmware changes things.

          • October 27, 2019 at 7:32 pm
            Permalink

            Let me know how you get on with the OS Firmware. I will be having a go myself in the next couple of months.

            All the best,
            Tony

          • May 28, 2020 at 9:02 pm
            Permalink

            Looking back on your posts I wonder if that heat accumulation is not due to the 52V 750w type of motor that has been modified in its software. As Tony said, this type of motor is a 48V one modified. I wonder if the software changes produced this heat to your motor (maybe they increased the motor’s power). Cheers.

        • May 28, 2020 at 8:51 pm
          Permalink

          Hi Mahe. I want to buy such a motor too and I also live in a mountainous area. What type of Tongsheng are you using? Have you solved the problem If yes, in what way? Thanks a lot for your time o answer my question.

          Reply
          • July 27, 2020 at 1:50 pm
            Permalink

            Value for Money

            10

            Ease of Installation

            8

            Reliability

            7

            Hi Dan, I come across your post by chance (I do not have alerts).
            I have now been using the TSDZ2 52V for 8 months or so and despite the issue that I described back then, I am pretty happy with it. It just takes some getting used to in order not to push it over its limit… Basically the problem I encountered was due to riding with the maximum assist level (level 4) for too long, on too hard a gear and slope. The “cold”
            motor (at start) has a pretty nice torque and it is hard to resist using it all ! But then it heats up beyond sustainable level and assistance stops and probabably damages the motor somewhat. Anyway, I found out that sticking to level 3 and moderate gear (say 5 on a typicaly Shimano 9-speed sprocket, on a 7% slope — approximately) allows me to climb a 500-m hill (I mean here altitude, not length on road) quite well with moderate effort. If I have to make a long climb (say 1000 m or more), I only use the level 2 assist with smaller gear (slower speed), in order to keep the heat to a sustainable level. For a short ride where the motor has no time to heat up, you can enjoy higher assistance and really nice torque. A pity it levels up after a while. I also bought the thermal pads for improved heat dissipation, and everything to install the software update (see github for the open-source software for docs related to everything including thermal dissipation), but I never took the step (quite an involved one…). I may do some day… Anyway, just to confirm, the motor does the job pretty well even in a montainous environment with tough slopes. Nevertheless, as a car replacement (as I am using it), I sometimes wish to have its “cold” power sustained over a longer time, and I am considering to invest into something stronger (my top-choice is the gmac 10T with regen braking at the moment, but it is quite an investment so I’ll still using the TSDZ2 52V up to this day, with original firmware). Hope that helps.

          • July 27, 2020 at 2:05 pm
            Permalink

            I got it on the Ebird store. 52V 750W version, with the small VLCD6 display (I did not even mount the speed sensor, for simplicity).

            https://it.aliexpress.com/item/32834396446.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.6c883c00kkifMs&mp=1

            I did not solve the problem but I learnt to work around it (see my other reply).

            I use em3ev batteries with Samsung 35E cells (I made two mounts for me and my g/f, 17Ah and 27Ah or so). The batteries are probably overkill for the small motors and I suppose cheaper ones on pswpower or else (aliexpress) would do it as well. With my large one (nearly 1500 Wh, not one sale any more !) I can climb 3000 m and make over 150 km. My g/f battery (885Wh) is also really good and she can make about 80km + 1500 m (these are no exact measures but I use that as a rule of thumb to plan trips and that works pretty well).

            I also bought the Bafang crank arm, indeed much better than the original (less knee pain), though I feel the overall bottom bracket machinery is nothing close to a real bike and I sometimes think back to my original bike where I could stand on the pedal and put all my weight on it (I try not to do it cause I know the torque sensor is a weak part that could break). Anyway, I now pass race cyclists with twice the speed and without the sweat routinely… so it’s a reasonable tradeoff for me.

  • September 30, 2019 at 2:09 pm
    Permalink

    Hello,
    I saw that there are some differences between motors, some are showing they are 4000rpm, some are showing 4500rpm at the same voltage, so for example 52v 4000rpm and 52v 4500 rpm, do you know what is the difference between these motors?

    Reply
    • September 30, 2019 at 10:28 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Andres,

      From the research I have done, the 4500rpm 52v motor is the latest version, and the 4000rpm would basically be a reprogrammed 48v motor.

      Let me know if you need any more information.

      Regards,
      Tony

      Reply
  • September 24, 2019 at 9:12 am
    Permalink

    Hello.
    I have Norco Sight (2016) and i want to turn it into an e bike.
    https://www.norco.com/bike-archives/2016/sight-a71/
    My question is your recommendation: 36V or 48V engine for that bike.
    The purpose is to ride singletracks and gravel roads on on a 1050-foot-high mountain in the neighborhood. I have 110 kg.

    Best regards

    Vedran

    Reply
    • September 24, 2019 at 9:50 am
      Permalink

      Hi Vedran,

      I have found the 36v 500w to be the best all-rounder for performance. There are a couple of issues you will come up against fitting this motor to a full-suspension mountain bike. The first would be securing the motor – on a traditional hard-tail MTB frame, you can fix the motor locking plate to the area where the chainstay meets the bottom bracket. On full-suspension bikes you can’t do this because of the pivoting swinging arm.

      On the last FS MTB I converted, I used a large stainless steel pipe clamp, which went under the motor fixing bracket and around the bottom of the seat tube. It didn’t look too great, but it held the motor in place perfectly.

      The other thing to consider is where to mount the battery. If you were after a high capacity battery for a longer range, then you would probably need to mount it on the top tube. If you were happy with a smaller battery, the 36v10.5ah compact bottle battery should fit on the downtube, as it will fit in most standard bottle holders (if you have one).

      I hope this information helps.

      All the best,
      Tony

      Reply
      • September 25, 2019 at 4:04 am
        Permalink

        Thanks for the quick answer.
        Which is about the range with that battery 36v10.5ah?
        I usually ride 30-60 km usually with around 700-1200m of elevation gain. My idea is ride in eco and tour assist.
        I found out a lot of useful info on your site. Great job. Thanx.

        Reply
        • September 26, 2019 at 8:31 pm
          Permalink

          Hi Vedran,

          The 36v10.5ah battery should be good for at least 60-80km, I used to get over 100km with a similar elevation gain out of a 36v13ah, and that was using mainly eco and tour mode for the steeper climbs.

          Glad you like the site, if you need any more info, let me know.

          Cheers,
          Tony

          Reply
      • October 26, 2019 at 9:24 pm
        Permalink

        Hello Tony,
        i bought 48v engine. Fitting motor is very hard but possible.
        Battery goes to the bottom on the downtube.
        But i have big problem with chain line. Its impossible to use lower speeds.
        I also tried it with bafang BBS02b motor (corrupt but good to try installation), much easier installation but same problem with chain line.
        Do you have any recommendation for chain line problem?

        Reply
        • October 27, 2019 at 8:04 pm
          Permalink

          Hi Vedran,

          You may be able to mount the chainring inbound of the mounting spider (on the TSDZ2). You will need some spacing washers, it should bring the chain line in by around 5mm.

          Give it a try and let me know how things go. I have done it before on a couple of bikes, but it doesn’t always work, and it can make the gears difficult to get indexed properly.

          Regards,
          Tony

          Reply
  • September 2, 2019 at 1:26 pm
    Permalink

    Hi all, i have purchased mid motor, now im looking for a battery that will be well priced and not too big. what do you think of this one? My motor is TSZ2 48v/500w.

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/48V-10Ah-Li-ion-Electric-E-Bike-Battery-Bicycle-Lockable-w-USB-Port-2A-Charger/401820619805?hash=item5d8e60141d:g:izAAAOSwW95dMZqm

    seems to be quite well priced, and seller seems to have good feedback.
    Any other suggestions and advise most welcome, as im not sure if this is a proper battery for my motor. 🙂

    Reply
    • September 2, 2019 at 2:36 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Paul,

      The battery looks decent enough. It uses unbranded Chinese lithium cells which don’t quite have the longevity of branded cells like Samsung or LG, but for the price it’s good value. It should work just fine with your 48v 500w Tongsheng.

      If you were happy to pay a bit more money, I would go for a 48v 13ah battery, but it really depends on the kind of mileage you plan on doing.

      All the best,
      Tony

      Reply
  • August 31, 2019 at 4:11 pm
    Permalink

    Hi Tony,

    Great article, it’s got really keen to try a conversion.

    Would you be kind enough to answer a couple of questions:

    Bike is a 2014 Boardman MX Sport

    1. Online spec says my bike has: “bottom bracket – SRAM Square Taper 68mm Shell”
    Will the TSDZ2 kit fit my bike?
    2. I ride for a max of 40km but there are many short, (half mile), but very steep hills and I hate having to dismount.
    I am not looking for total lack of effort as that defeats the object of becoming fitter through cycling but I would love an occasional assist on the hills.
    Which motor / battery combination would best suit my kind of riding?
    Many thanks,
    Ian

    Reply
    • August 31, 2019 at 6:21 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Ian,

      The TSDZ2 will fit, but you may need to re-route any cables running under the bottom bracket due to the limited clearance between the motor and bottom bracket.

      As far as motor and battery combination is concerned a 250w should do the job. I have tested the TSDZ2 250w on a short 30% gradient, and it got me up there okay, albeit with a bit of extra effort. If you’re not concerned about the legal aspect, I think the 36v 500w version offers the right balance of power for steep climbs.

      Regarding battery choice, a good quality 36v13ah battery should give you more than enough range. I used to regularly get 80km out of one of these using mainly tour mode.

      If you need any more advice, please let me know.

      Cheers,
      Tony

      Reply
  • August 30, 2019 at 9:46 pm
    Permalink

    Hi Tony,
    Thank you for answering so quickly. That’s really helpful.
    I’ll let you know how I get on!
    Best Regards,
    Mark

    Reply
  • August 30, 2019 at 6:54 pm
    Permalink

    Hi Tony,
    Thank you for your brilliant website. It is really helpful and has inspired me to convert my wife’s old Specialized Rockhopper into an e bike.
    I’ve ordered a 250W 36v TSDZ2 motor kit, but which battery am I allowed to use to fit in with UK law? Does it have to be a 36v 10Ah battery, or can I use a 36v battery with a higher Ah rating?
    Thank you.
    Mark S

    Reply
    • August 30, 2019 at 9:34 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Mark,

      Thanks you for your positive comments, much appreciated.

      In answer to your question, it doesn’t matter what Ah capacity battery you use as this will not effect the power output of the motor. It will just give you a greater range.

      If you are looking for a decent spec downtube battery at a reasonable price, I have purchased a few of these Everpro 36v14.5ah batteries from Amazon in the past and they have always been totally reliable.

      If you need any more advice, please let me know.

      Regards,
      Tony

      Reply
  • August 25, 2019 at 2:59 pm
    Permalink

    Value for Money

    8.5

    Ease of Installation

    8.5

    Reliability

    0

    Hi Tony:

    I am hoping you can help me diagnose the defective part in with our Tongsheng.
    The incident as was told to me by my friend was pedaling around a corner, coming upon a truck in the bike line, hard braking and then no motor power. I listened over the phone and could hear the motor engaging so I figured the nylon gear stripped. I order and installed without further diagnosis, only to discover the gear looked ok and the bike still has no power.
    I removed the motor and it appear to be spinning about 200 rpm, set from factory at 4000.
    I can pretty much stop the rear wheel with my hand while the bike is upside down and engaging the motor and trying to ride produced no noticeable power / torque.
    So there are 3 components, the motor, the controller, the torque sensor.
    From what I understand I should be able to visually inspect the motor for burning if I take it apart but is there another way to test it has not burned up.
    Could a mosfet or 2 in the controller have burned out and in now not letting full amperage the motor or could the firmware have corrupted? I think the factory configured for 36V 500W which is not standard. Is there a way to bypass the controller to eliminate the motor?
    Does the torque sensor act like a variable resister and could it have burned. I would think I should be able to apply power directly to the controller and test controller and motor. Can you give me any direction on this.
    Thanks for any help you can provide to help me figure out what happened and which component to replace.

    Jim S

    Reply
    • August 25, 2019 at 4:36 pm
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      Hi Jim,

      Testing the controller would be a good place to start. I’ve emailed you a PDF on how to test an ebike controller using a multimeter.

      Smelling the motor / controller is always an easy indication of burning, it is quite a distinctive smell.

      Let me know how you get on testing the controller and we can go from there. The motor is DC, so it should be possible to test the motor directly, although I have never tried this before with the TSDZ2 so I would exercise caution.

      Regards,
      Tony

      Reply
    • November 22, 2019 at 7:31 am
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      probably broke the sprag clutch. likely a 50 dollar part.

      Reply
    • August 22, 2019 at 9:08 pm
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      Hi Mikko,

      Thanks for the link, much appreciated. Hopefully others will find it useful.

      Cheers,
      Tony

      Reply
  • August 22, 2019 at 4:55 pm
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    Hi,
    in the installation video, at 00:40 they are using a “scale” to check the frame clearence. Is there any possibility to get this tool from somewhere.
    Or even just the measurements would be fine. As i am interested in installing this to a used full suspension mtb, which i have not bought yet, this would definitely come in handy.
    Thanks!

    Reply
  • August 17, 2019 at 2:55 pm
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    Thanks for the response. The Dawes Kingpin has a conventional BB the hub gear query was related to the possibility that the maximum torque might be exceeded. I would imagine that it’s only a problem with non road legal power levels. The KIngpin idea is on the back burner as it is more likely that My wife’s road tyred mountain bike will be the first to try. Unfortunately with a drop frame there is no room for a battery in the main frame triangle

    Reply
    • August 17, 2019 at 6:35 pm
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      The maximum torque wouldn’t be an issue with the 250w version. Due to the nature of the pedal assist the power delivery is quite subtle and doesn’t kick in too harshly.

      Regarding a battery suitable for your wife’s mountain bike, you could try either a 36v compact bottle battery or a rack mounted battery. I have fitted both of these types of batteries on low-step frame bikes in the past.

      Reply
  • August 13, 2019 at 4:54 pm
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    Tony,

    Thanks for clearing up the 48v vs 52v question.

    I’m however still not out of the woods yet. A couple extra questions if you don’t mind…

    How can i tell if a tsdz2 52v 750w motor (which they sell) has a 6 or 8-pin connector? I need a 8-pin connector in order to flash the software. Is the difference between a 6 and 8-pin the option of a thumb throttle/light?

    What kind of connector, comming from the controller, connects with the battery? I assume that i can ask em3ev to provide me with the male/female equivalent so i don’t have to start soldering?

    Thanks again for all the help regarding my never ending questions.

    Greetings,

    Wout

    Reply
    • August 13, 2019 at 8:48 pm
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      Hi Wout,

      I have just checked and can confirm the 52v TSDZ2 sold by ebird store has the 6-pin connector. The difference between the 6 and 8 pin is the 8-pin connector will work with a throttle and brake cut-off circuit.

      Eunorau ebike store on Aliexpress sell the 48v 500w TSDZ2 with the Bafang P850c colour display. I have just checked the photos in the listing description and the connector is 8-pin. I have made several purchases from Eunorau and they have always provided a good service.

      The battery connection is usually red (male) and black (female) bullet connectors. Some suppliers use the red and black small anderson powerpole connectors.

      EM3EV should provide you with the connectors you require. They are a great company!

      All the best,
      Tony

      Reply
  • August 12, 2019 at 9:59 pm
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    Hi, you mention a problem using with a hub gear. I am looking to convert an old Dawes Kingpin Sturmey archer 3 speed. Could you explain please. Thanks TonyC

    Reply
    • August 12, 2019 at 11:45 pm
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      Hi Tony,

      There would only be a potential issue if your Dawes had an eccentric bottom bracket, otherwise it shouldn’t be a problem. The TSDZ2 usually works very well with bikes that have hub gears.

      To be sure, check the underside of your bottom bracket shell, and see if there are pinch bolts. If you have these then you would have an eccentric BB fitted, and you would need to make some modifications in order to fit the motor.

      Let me know how you get on. If you are in any doubt, you can send me photos to my email address: cycletek@outlook.com.

      All the best,
      Tony

      Reply
  • August 12, 2019 at 11:31 am
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    Tony,

    I followed up on your advice and i’m currently looking for a 52v 750w tsdz2 (combined with a 52v 17aH battery from em3ev).

    I contacted the company to which you referred through in a link you gave in the reply section (“There is also a 52v version which would give you 832w. The other benefit of the 52v version is the pedal assist seems to work at a slightly higher pedalling cadence. Here is a link to the 52v motor.”) from the 17th of July.

    They however told me, through chat, that they only sell a 48V motor adapted for a 52V battery. I realize that communications, in english, with a chinese helpdesk can be subjected to miss interpretation/information so thats why i’m reaching to you for some clarification.

    The information upon which a based i my request concerning the difference between a 48V and 52V motor comes from the following website: https://www.eco-ebike.com/collections/tongsheng-tsdz2/products/tsdz2vlcd5?variant=12702228742226. The 52V motor would indeed have a higher cadence and would make more rpm (4000 vs 4500 if i’m not mistaken). Extra’s which would make my ride more enjoyable (going over difficult terrain at a cadence preference between 90 and 110).

    Is all of the above however a reason for concern, and noticable, if i would tinker with the settings (which i get from opensphere.com) in which i can change the cadence?

    Thanks again for helping me out.

    Greetings,

    Wout

    Reply
    • August 12, 2019 at 4:32 pm
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      Hi Wout,

      I have spoken to my contact at Tongsheng, and he has confirmed they do not actually manufacture a 52v specific model, so the supplier would have been correct.

      All the 52v versions on sale have modified firmware. The motor is identical to the 48v version, and the max current is usually set at around 16