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Tongsheng TSDZ2 review

This post contains affiliate links, to find out more information, please read my affiliate disclosure

Overview

In this Tongsheng TSDZ2 review I will go over the Benefits of this particular electric bike conversion kit. In this post I will be reviewing the 250w version – this is the only variant I can recommend for road legal use in the UK, Europe and Australia.

At the bottom of this post there links on where to buy the Tongsheng TSDZ2

Tongsheng have been manufacturing plug and play mid-drive electric bike conversion kits for a few years now, and although not as popular as the Bafang mid drive conversion kits, Tongsheng are steadily increasing in popularity Earlier versions did have some reliability issues, but as with the Bafang, a lot of these seemed to have been ironed out now.

✅Links to trusted vendor on Aliexpress

 

I have personally installed approximately twenty of these kits on to various bikes, ranging from low-step commuter bikes through to full-suspension mountain bikes.

The main criteria for installation is similar to the Bafang mid-drive, the Tongsheng TSDZ2 will fit any standard threaded  bottom bracket which is 68mm-73mm wide, with an inside diameter of approximately 33.5mm.

Buy the Tongsheng TSDZ2 from Amazon

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It must be noted that these kits are not intended to be installed on bikes that use a pressed-fit bottom bracket as the dimensions are not compatible with the motor unit. There can be a way around this if a special shim and mounting plate are machined by a professional engineer. If your bike has a BB30 pressfit bottom bracket, then you would need to purchase is a BB30 to BSA adaptor.

If your bike has an eccentric bottom bracket as fitted to tandems and bike’s with internally geared hubs like the Shimano Nexus, installation is still possible, but may be problematic.

The motor comes as a kit with the following key components:

    • The motor unit with integrated controller
    • LCD Display – VLCD5 / XH18 / VLCD6
    • Wiring loom
    • Inner and outer lock-nuts
    • Chainring 42T
    • Speed sensor and wheel magnet
    • A bag of various Allen bolts and screws
    • Installation tool / spanner

Check Price and availability on Aliexpress

Legal information

Please read my separate article on electric bike law here.

Installation

The installation of this motor is the same as with the Bafang Mid Drive. One of the really useful things about this kit, is unlike the Bafang kit, the Tongsheng kit comes with an installation spanner. If you are looking for a nice easy conversion to do yourself, but you have little or no experience with bicycle mechanics or using tools, I would not recommend this kit. I will write a separate post detailing the installation process with photos, but the installation will need to be carried out by someone who is fairly competent. Removing the bottom bracket can be a right pain, and you will require a lot of patience!

The installation video below shows the installation process, although it looks like they loosened the bottom bracket beforehand!

Technical Data

These motors have an internal torque sensor, and give assistance proportionate to the amount of force applied to the pedals (much like the Bosch system) . The upshot of this is, that you will need to make a certain degree of effort in order for the motor to work, unlike the Bafang system, which will give assistance as soon as the pedals are rotated.

These motors can be reprogrammed using this OpenSource firmware / embedded software but you will need to purchase a KT-LCD3 display. It is not as straightforward as programming a Bafang, but if you are willing to have a go, you can really fine-tune this motor to suit your particular needs.

tongsheng tsdz2 with colour display

It should also be noted that unlike the 48v Bafang motor, you cannot use a 52v battery with the 48v version of the Tongsheng. You will need to purchase the 750w 52v TSDZ2.

It should be noted that Tongsheng do not specifically manufacture a 52v TSDZ2, and that all the motor kits sold as 52v have modified firmware.

Like the Bafang, this motor works through a series of gears, and drives the rear wheel directly through a single front chainring. The benefit of this is the motor is using the bike’s gear ratios for maximum efficiency and torque. Also, like the Bafang motor, gear selection is important when pulling away or hill climbing.

Hybrid bike fitted with a tongsheng tsdz2 mid drive electric bike conversion kit

Reliability

I have supplied and installed quite a few Tongsheng TSDZ2 motors and to date, and I have only had one issue reported, and this was on a bike being used for serious off-road riding.

  • Although I haven’t personally had any issues with the Tongsheng, they can and do occur from time to time.
  • The torque sensor has been known to fail – although this seems rare and a replacement is not overly expensive.
  • Controller failure is also much rarer now than it was a few years ago, a replacement controller is much cheaper than a Bafang controller.
  • The blue nylon reduction gear can be prone to premature wear, although this seems to hinge on how hard the bike is being ridden and is unlikely to be a problem on commuter and leisure bike.
  • The ‘Sprag clutch’ or one way bearing has also been known to fail occasionally.
  • Because of the way the power is delivered there doesn’t appear to be much of an increased risk of wear and tear on the bike chain and gear components.

The general feel is one of an enhanced cycling experience, you still have to put in an effort but it makes you feel like you have bionic legs, which is great fun!

Riding a Tongsheng powered Electric Bike

The first installation I did using a Tongsheng motor was on a Voodoo hardtail mountain bike, and I must say I was pleasantly surprised. The 250w motor is very quiet and smooth, and you have up to 4 levels of pedal assist to choose from – ECO / TOUR / SPEED / TURBO.

The torque sensing pedal assist works really well, and having ridden Bosch e-bikes, I would say the power delivery is very similar. The general feel is one of an enhanced cycling experience, you still have to put in an effort but it makes you feel like you have bionic legs, which is great fun!

Another big plus point is that unlike the Bafang motor, the pedalling resistance when the motor is switched off is barely noticeable, although I have been reliably informed that this can vary from motor to motor. Some users report significant resistance with the motor off.

Tongsheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor installed on a hybrid bike

As with the Bafang you will be limited to a single chainring, but Tongsheng offer a 42T as standard, which is much better gearing than the 44T minimum offered by Bafang. The TSDZ2 will also take a standard 110BCD chainring.

As this bike uses a torque sensing system, brakes with cut-off sensors are not required, reducing the need for more untidy external wires.

Another important consideration is the Q-factor – this is the distance between the pedal attachment points on the crank arms, when measured parallel to the bottom bracket axle. On the TSDZ2 the Q-factor is quite wide at 210mm – if this is a problem, it can be easily solved by fitting a pair off standard Bafang BBS  or Shimano Steps FC-E6000 cranks arms which should reduce the above figure by 28mm.

Tongsheng TSDZ2 fitted with shimano steps fc e6000 crank arms

This motor is also 30% lighter than the Bafang equivalent, and the overall look is a little more discreet – below is a photo of an Orange full suspension mountain bike that a customer converted. He also owns a Haibike and actually prefers the Tongsheng conversion!

Orange full suspension mountain bike fitted with a tongsheng tsdz2 electric bike kit

Conclusion

As with the Bafang, the Tongsheng will not be for everyone. Installation can be challenging and the motor may need periodic maintenance. It is nonetheless an excellent option, and the end result will be a bike that looks more like a factory produced e-bike.

The torque sensing system may not suit everyone, as you will still need to put a fair amount of effort in for the pedal assist to work. But for me personally, I loved the way it provides assistance. My only real complaint, is that I generally ride my bike at a higher cadence of between 80-100rpm, and this motor does not provide any assistance beyond 90rpm.

The TSDZ2 is also incredibly efficient if used wisely. I recently had 120 mile range from a 36v13ah battery, however I was only using ECO and TOUR mode on the hills -total elevation gain over that distance was 11000ft.

This motor is also a little cheaper than the Bafang, making it excellent value for money.

If you are comfortable with your ability to install it, and you have an appropriate donor bike, then as long as you can live with some of the compromises, this is an excellent electric bike conversion option and an excellent alternative to the Bafang. There is also a good supply of spare parts available – click here for a parts list.

Buy the Tongsheng TSDZ2 from trusted vendors✅

The Tongsheng TSDZ2 is available from the links below with shipping to the EU, UK, US and Canada.
Buy from Aliexpress (various shipping options)
Buy from Amazon (multiple countries)
Buy from eBay
👉Compare Tongsheng TSDZ2 prices (UK visitors only)

✅Links to trusted vendors on Aliexpress 👇

How does the TSDZ2 fair against the Bafang mid-drive? Check out my Tongsheng vs Bafang comparison.

Thanks for reading. Please feel free to leave a comment below or sign up to our new forum where there is a dedicated Tongsheng TSDZ2 section – I check my messages once a day and usually reply to queries within 24hrs.

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Tongsheng TSDZ2

8

Value for Money

9.0/10

Ease of Installation

6.0/10

Reliability

9.0/10

Pros

  • Excellent Value for Money
  • Very efficient
  • Torque Sensing pedal assist

Cons

  • Can be difficult to install for the inexperienced
  • Torque sensing assist is not for everyone
  • Assist stops working at high pedalling rpm

Tony

Passionate E-Bike advocate and enthusiast. 5 years experience converting bikes for customers primarily using Bafang and Tongsheng electric bike motors.

382 thoughts on “Tongsheng TSDZ2 review

  • September 19, 2021 at 6:52 pm
    Permalink

    Hi Tony,

    Thanks for your reply to my question on suitability of a Trek District 1 Equipped (though I can’t see the message now). I was about to order a TSDZ2 kit on AliExpress, but it seems there’s suddenly no availability from your trusted vendors. Do you know if this is just a temporary supply issue, or is production of the TSDZ2 stopping?

    Thanks, Jim

    Reply
    • September 19, 2021 at 8:21 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Jim,

      I just checked with that particular supplier and it looks like they’re out of stock. There’s another good supplier I’ve dealt with in the past called Greenergia. They have UK stock of the Tongsheng. Here is the link to the eBay listing.

      All the best,
      Tony

      Reply
      • September 20, 2021 at 12:35 pm
        Permalink

        Hi Tony,

        Thanks for checking and for the link to Greenergia (though I’m in the Netherlands). I contacted the AliExpress vendor and they were able to supply me from remaining EU stock.

        Cheers, Jim

        Reply
  • September 16, 2021 at 7:02 pm
    Permalink

    Hi Tony,

    Thanks for such a great source of information. I am considering adding a TSDZ2 to a Trek District 1 (or 2) Equipped. Do you have any thoughts on whether this would work?

    Thanks, Jim

    Reply
    • September 16, 2021 at 9:05 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Jim,

      Looking at the specs on the Trek website, it looks like the TSDZ2 should be okay. The District 1 and 2 use a Prowheel PR-115 crankset and as far as I could make out it uses a standard threaded bottom bracket. The braking system is a roller brake, so you won’t need the coaster brake version (of the TSDZ2).

      To be absolutely sure, I would remove the crankset and bottom bracket – as long as it’s a 68mm threaded cartridge type bottom bracket then you should be fine with the TSDZ2 installation.

      Let me know if you have any more questions.

      Cheers,
      Tony

      Reply
  • May 20, 2021 at 11:54 am
    Permalink

    I’ve recently purchased a Tongsheng TSDZ2, and was surprised it came with power off brake levers and a thumb throttle. I do not wish to fit these, but will the motor still work without them?
    Thanks
    Laurie

    Reply
    • May 20, 2021 at 3:18 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Laurie,

      Yes, the motor should work fine without the throttle and brake sensors fitted.

      Reply
      • May 22, 2021 at 6:30 am
        Permalink

        Value for Money

        0

        Ease of Installation

        10

        Reliability

        0

        Hi Tony, am trying to buy a replacement 750 watt, 48 volt Tsdz2 controller. Okfeet has up to 500 watt, 48 volt (which I also need). Any reliable links for 750 watt, 48 volt controller please. I am in Malaysia. Thanks. Mak

        Reply
        • May 22, 2021 at 11:39 am
          Permalink

          Hi Mak,

          Because the 750w version is a reprogrammed 500w motor (usually done by the supplier) you can’t buy a 750w-specific controller (only a 48v 500w). The 500w controller will work just fine, but if you want the higher power you will need to reprogram it using the opensource software.

          Regards,
          Tony

          Reply
          • May 23, 2021 at 2:59 am
            Permalink

            Value for Money

            10

            Ease of Installation

            0

            Reliability

            0

            Hi Tony, many thanks for the info. That was really useful. I suspected that would be the case. By the way, I blew my 500 watt controller just by using the standard thumb throttle. I heard a small crack, then display went blank. Next day the unit reset itself and worked fine. Intrigued, I decided to give the throttle another try. This time there was a sharper crack,, and that was it. Moral: user beware use of thumb throttle. Cheers. Mak

          • August 17, 2021 at 1:04 am
            Permalink

            The Open Source Firmware will allow you to set what ever power limit you want (within reason), but be aware of heat issue if you don’t also fit a temperature sensor (some rewiring required). The temp sensor is mutually exclusive with the throttle because they use the same (one and only) analogue input channel into the controller. Note that this info is true for the older but more common controller with the STM micro-controller. There is a new controller (2020) out there with a new Infineon CPU that is not yet compatible with the Open Source Firmware as far as I understand.

          • August 17, 2021 at 7:58 am
            Permalink

            Thanks for the info, much appreciated👍

  • May 1, 2021 at 10:06 am
    Permalink

    Hello Tony
    Thanks for so good webpage and all information inside.
    I am thinking to install Tongsheng TSDZ2 in a Kalkhoff Voyager bike. It is my first time to do it. Do you know if it can be installed in this bike? What is the kit that you recommend (36/48V/52V 250w/350/500W/750W)? I will use the bike in a plain terrain (no mountains) and I am living in Europe (law restrictions?)
    Thanks for your help
    Best regards
    Fernando

    Reply
    • May 1, 2021 at 3:38 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Fernando,

      I have looked at some photos but couldn’t find the exact specification of this bike. Looking at the photos, it looks like it has a regular threaded bottom bracket so the TSDZ2 should fit. You may need to re-route the cables as the cable guide (underneath the BB shell) usually gets in the way of motor installation.

      If you are planning on riding fairly flat / gently undulating terrain then the 250w will be fine and it will be legal – you may need to set the maximum speed manually inside the display parameters.

      If you have any more questions, please let me know.

      Regards,
      Tony

      Reply
      • May 5, 2021 at 4:13 pm
        Permalink

        Value for Money

        10

        Ease of Installation

        10

        Reliability

        9.5

        Thanks a lot for info
        Regards
        Fernando

        Reply
          • May 6, 2021 at 6:18 pm
            Permalink

            Two additional questions Tony,

            In the kit it is recommended 34T for wheel plate when bicycle is 28 inch wheel. Do you recommend?
            Also there is a set light sensor for speed sensor (optional) Do you recommend also?
            Again thanks for your support

          • May 6, 2021 at 10:45 pm
            Permalink

            Hi Fernando,

            A 34T will give you lower gearing for acceleration and hill climbing. A 42T would be better for flatter riding. It doesn’t have any bearing on the wheel size. The light sensor connector is useful if you’re planning on using lights that run off the battery. I’ve never used this option before as I have some powerful rechargeable lights.

            Regards,
            Tony

  • April 27, 2021 at 7:13 am
    Permalink

    Hi Tony, I’m planning on fitting electric assist to my cargo bike and was going to go along the route of a 48V rear hub motor. Obviously where I need most assistance is on hills where the wheel speed will be low and therefore not at its most efficient. For that reason a mid drive has advantages however I would be interested to know if you think that the TSDZ2 would cope with a loaded cargo bike (approx 30kg for the bike, 70kg for the rider and up to 70kg load). I would probably opt for the 48V option. Also the question of gearing is raised. As the smallest chainring, without major chainline problems, is 42t I’m wondering how big a cassette I should fit so as to not overload the motor. Thanks, Ian

    Reply
    • April 27, 2021 at 8:12 am
      Permalink

      Hi Ian,

      I have read numerous reports of the TSDZ2 not coping too well when climbing with heavy payloads – mainly overheating / motor cutting out and premature wear of the blue nylon gear. I would be more inclined to go with a Bafang mid-drive for this kind of set-up, plus the Bafang is much easier to re-configure and fine-tune. Regarding gearing, it depends on how steep the hills are. In Cornwall I always used a 1:1 for the lowest gear, so ideally you’d want the biggest cassette possible at the rear – something like an 11-46 which would require either SRAM NX derailleur or Shimano SLX / Deore M6100.

      My personal experiences with the Tongsheng have been favourable, but unfortunately these motors do seem to suffer from long-term reliability issues. I have installed the TSDZ2 on several (fairly heavy) recumbents trikes and never had any issues.

      I hope this helps. If you have any more questions, please let me know.

      All the best,
      Tony

      Reply
      • April 27, 2021 at 11:07 am
        Permalink

        Hi Tony, thanks for your reply. I got the impression from what I’ve read here that the Tongsheng units are more reliable than the Bafang. Maybe I’ve misunderstood something? How would you reconfigure the Bafang unit to make it better suited to use on a cargo bike.

        Cheers, Ian

        Reply
        • April 27, 2021 at 2:04 pm
          Permalink

          Hi Ian,

          It depends on which Bafang. I’ve had about a 10% premature failure rate with the 48v BBS02B but less than 1% with the BBS01B 250w 36v. I’ve never had any TSDZ2 failures, but many users report reduced reliability when using for long, steep climbs or towing a lot of extra weight. Unfortunately all of the retro-fit e-bike conversion kits are prone to gremlins, but the same can be said about a lot of the premium factory built brands.

          With the Bafang you can change multiple settings using a USB lead and the free PC software – here is a link to an article that explains in greater details what you can and can’t change and what effect it has on the performance.

          All the best,
          Tony

          Reply
          • April 27, 2021 at 6:11 pm
            Permalink

            Thank you for your help Tony. I’ve just come across the Bafang BBS01B ETM which appears to be uprated to cope with more torque. Could be a better option.
            Ian

          • April 27, 2021 at 8:07 pm
            Permalink

            Yes the ETM motor has a higher torque output with different windings inside the motor and better mosfets in the controller. The BBS01B is also a lot quieter in operation than the TSDZ2, and if you program the motor correctly you get get a very smooth and seamless pedal assist. Brighton e-bikes sell it in the UK, I’ve had dealings with them in the past and never had any problems.

          • April 28, 2021 at 7:22 am
            Permalink

            Thanks again for your help. There are couple of things about the Tosheng unit that appeal to me. It is more compact and as it will hang below the bottom bracket on my cargo bike this is a factor. It uses a smaller chainring and has better chainline. It uses a torque sensor which I like the idea of and I suspect will potentially put less strain on the motor on take up from a standstill. Any thoughts?

            Cheers, Ian

          • April 28, 2021 at 11:13 am
            Permalink

            I personally prefer the TSDZ2 to the Bafang, the torque sensing pedal assist works very well and efficiency is noticeably better. I built a Tongsheng powered hybrid bike in 2019 and covered over 500 miles on it without any problems, bearing in mind it was fitted to a 14kg bike with a 107kg rider. I think as long as you’re prepared to deal with any issues further down the line, then it’s a good buy. The good thing about both the Tongsheng and Bafang is us mere mortals can usually fix them if they go wrong (unlike Bosch etc.) and there’s good parts availability.

            Ebay is always a good place to buy due to their long buyer protection – there’s a Chinese company selling the TSDZ2 via a UK warehouse. I’ve dealt with Greenergia before (through Aliexpress) and never had any problems. Here is a link to the TSDZ2 (with battery options) on eBay UK.

            Cheers,
            Tony

          • April 29, 2021 at 7:03 am
            Permalink

            Thanks again Tony for your helpful replies. Would I correct in thinking that a 48V version of the 250W Tosheng would operate at a lower amperage and therefore potentially extend the life of the controller (and other parts)?

            Cheers, Ian

          • April 29, 2021 at 8:36 am
            Permalink

            Hi Ian,

            Yes, that’s correct – higher voltage equals lower current draw, helping the motor run cooler.

            Regards,
            Tony

    • June 6, 2021 at 5:56 am
      Permalink

      Value for Money

      9.5

      Ease of Installation

      0

      Reliability

      0

      Can this motor be installed on a sunseeker trike?

      Reply
      • June 6, 2021 at 8:49 am
        Permalink

        It should fit the Sun seeker Tadpole trike as I’ve successfully fitted the TSDZ2 to several Ice Trikes which are a similar design. Not too sure about the EZ Classic though.

        Reply
  • March 21, 2021 at 2:02 pm
    Permalink

    Value for Money

    8.5

    Ease of Installation

    7.5

    Reliability

    5

    I have a problem with my TSDZ2. It cuts out (total instant power loss) when being ridden over a slight bump. I originally thought it was a loose connection somewhere but it only cuts out when it is providing assistance (i.e at least on ECO mode), and only when it is being actively pedalled. It seems to ride normally (i.e the same as it rode before this problem developed) until the second it goes over a slight bump. I cannot replicate the fault going over bumps when I am just coasting and/or when it is powered on but not assisting. Any pointers as to what the problem might be? Thanks

    Reply
    • March 21, 2021 at 5:33 pm
      Permalink

      Hi,
      It’s not a problem I’ve personally encountered but it sounds to me like a bad solder / lose connection in the torque sensor. There’s a small circuit board on the torque sensor that’s likely be the culprit. You will need to remove the torque sensor to access it.

      I hope this helps.

      All the best,
      Tony

      Reply
  • March 13, 2021 at 10:19 am
    Permalink

    Value for Money

    5

    Ease of Installation

    5

    Reliability

    5

    Hi Tony
    I’m planning on fitting a TSDZ2 to my Genesis Latitude, and I suspect I’m going to run into the problem of clearance with the bottom bracket mounted gear cable guide. Assuming paring down the plastic and using a low profile fixing (pop rivet perhaps?) isn’t enough, what hardware and re-routing do you recommend for the cable?
    Secondly, I live in a very hilly part of Devon, and was wondering if a chain ring swap to about 36 tooth might work for me, and stress the motor less – are there any issues with doing that?
    Thanks in Anticipation

    Reply
    • March 13, 2021 at 3:40 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Ian,

      Your best bet would be to get a gear cable outer and route the cable over the BB shell, as there’s usually not enough clearance even for a low profile cable guide. I’ve tried routing under the BB before using a full cable outer and the motor compressed it too much.

      Regarding chainring I would consider a 34 or 36t, the only issue here is the stock 42t chainring is dished in slightly to compensate for the offset chain line. This means using a regular 110BCD chainring means compromised shifting (usually on the largest couple of cogs at the back). Another more costly option would be to stick with the stock 42t and fit an 11-42 cassette at the back. The only problem with that is the Shimano Deore M610 derailleur will go to about 40t max with the ‘b’ screw adjusted. You would need something like a Shimano M6000 or SLX derailleur to work with an 11-42.

      I hope this helps, let me know if you have any more questions.

      All the best,
      Tony

      Reply
  • March 12, 2021 at 7:04 pm
    Permalink

    Once the bike is converted to a TSDZ2, would it be okay to leave it outdoors -without the battery– or do you recommend that the whole bike be taken indoors? In other words, does the motor get damaged in the hot, cold, rain and snow of the east coast?

    Reply
    • March 12, 2021 at 9:09 pm
      Permalink

      Hi,

      Yes it should be okay, but I would recommend using a waterproof bike cover. In my experience the TSDZ2 is fairly water resistant, but I would definitely protect the battery contacts and display from prolonged exposure to the elements.

      Reply
  • March 8, 2021 at 12:22 am
    Permalink

    Hi Tony,

    Thanks for the informative page, no wonder you get a lot of questions! I have two if that is ok. I am thinking about installing a motor onto a Surly Big Dummy as my kids are getting a little heavy now. This seems like a good option in the 250w, as I am in Australia and want it to be legal. I note when looking to buy it some of the images have the motor linked to the brake levers but mine are hydraulic so I don’t think this can be done but also thought that with the torque sensing motor it was not needed? The second question is could this be connected to a Bosch battery as then if we wanted to use it as the 2nnd battery in my wife’s Tern GSD we could?

    Thanks in advance.
    Kind regards,
    Chris

    Reply
    • March 8, 2021 at 12:27 am
      Permalink

      Ok so I just answered one of my questions by having a better look on your site. The brake connection is only needed if i am adding a throttle, which I am not so that question is now answered thanks.

      Reply
    • March 8, 2021 at 12:55 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Chris,

      Unfortunately Bosch batteries can only be used with their motors and are not interchangeable with other systems. The Surly Big Dummy is a great donor bike, I’ve converted a couple of Surly LHT’s in the past and they’re usually nice and straightforward to convert. If you have any more questions, please let me know.

      All the best,
      Tony

      Reply
  • February 5, 2021 at 12:58 am
    Permalink

    Hi Tony, it looks great and looking forward to trying the Tongsheng motor drive system… quick question, that I have seen address here on this forum, but being a novice I wanted to be sure – is a full carbon frame ok for fixing, screwing, mounting etc., or should I purchase an aluminium frame? Cheers, Roy

    Reply
    • February 5, 2021 at 12:58 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Roy,

      Personally, I would stick with an aluminium frame. Most carbon frames have a beefed-up area around the bottom bracket shell which can make fitting the TSDZ2 nigh on impossible. The other concern would be tightening the mounting plate and possibly cracking or creating extra stress in the area where the chainstays meet the BB shell.

      I hope this helps.

      Cheers,
      Tony

      Reply
  • February 4, 2021 at 5:50 am
    Permalink

    Value for Money

    9.5

    Ease of Installation

    9

    Reliability

    8

    Hi Tony, thanks for the website. Your comments section is a wealth of knowledge. I have one question which I couldn’t find an answer to. I want to permanently connect (solder) the Tong Sheng power wires to the battery wires (red to red/black to black) to keep cabling short and tidy. What negatives do you see with eliminating connectors (XT60, Anderson, etc..) assuming the mid drive motor and Hailong battery holder will never need repair or removal?

    Reply
    • February 4, 2021 at 9:04 am
      Permalink

      Hi Leah,

      I have done this on many occasions and it’s absolutely fine, if you do ever need to remove the motor for servicing you can either cut and re-solder the wires of remove the battery mounting plate at the same time.

      All the best,
      Tony

      Reply
  • January 17, 2021 at 6:25 pm
    Permalink

    TSDZ2 kit for my GT Avalanche Comp 2019, 29″ ?
    Hello Tony, I want to install a BTSDZ2 350w on my bike but I don’t know if it will be compatible. I have an AllTerra 36/22 crankset and a Cog Set Shimano HG200, 11-36, 9-speedwill.
    The chainline and kit will be able to fit ?
    Thank you

    Reply
    • January 17, 2021 at 8:20 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Frédéric,

      The TSDZ2 should fit the GT as it has a 73mm wide threaded bottom bracket. You may need to re-route the rear gear cable as there won’t be a lot of clearance between the motor shaft and BB shell. The chainline should be okay with a 9-speed cassette – I’ve fitted the TSDZ2 with up to a 10-speed without any issue. You may need to re-adjust the rear derailleur slightly to compensate for the slightly offset chainline.

      Regards,
      Tony

      Reply
      • January 18, 2021 at 7:09 pm
        Permalink

        Perfect, thank you for your comprehensive and well-explained website ! It’s great.
        All the best,
        Frédéric

        Reply
    • January 29, 2021 at 3:11 pm
      Permalink

      Hello ! I have a question regarding the instalment of a TSDZ2 on a 2 wheeled recumbent bike. I have seen lots of rewiews of recumbent trikes with said motor, but never a 2 wheeled recumbent. Wha concerns me is if the rather heavy motor at the very end of the boom will negatively affect the bikes handling. My bike is a stick bike (Bacchetta), and these bikes have a tendensy to become rear heavy, and twitchy, especially if the seat is mounted very flat so that the riders head ends up behind the center of the rear wheel. In that case a front mounted motor should indeed be a good thing, but this is only speculation , and thats why I wonder if you have any experience to share.
      Thank you

      Reply
      • January 29, 2021 at 6:54 pm
        Permalink

        Hi,

        I installed a Bafang BBS01B 250w on an HP Velotechik Grasshopper and the Lady I did the conversion for did mention that the extra weight at the front took a bit of getting used to. But that was over two years ago and she has since covered a lot of mileage without issue. The TSDZ2 weighs 3.6kg which is 600g lighter than the Bafang, so I would assume it should be okay. Although I can’t say for certain as I’ve never installed a motor on a Bacchetta.

        Regards,
        Tony

        Reply
        • June 14, 2021 at 9:54 am
          Permalink

          Hi Tony: for the record ; I can now report that the Tongsheng at the front of my recumbent boom made no difference whatsoever on the bikes handling. But the force from the motor can sometimes tend to push the boom in, so I had to secure the boom with an extra bolt into the frame to keep it from doin that.
          Regards
          Gunnar

          Reply
          • June 14, 2021 at 12:08 pm
            Permalink

            Thanks for the update, much appreciated.

            All the best,
            Tony

  • January 9, 2021 at 10:17 pm
    Permalink

    Value for Money

    9

    Ease of Installation

    8

    Reliability

    6.5

    Hi Tony,
    Just a quick question…
    I have a TSDZ2 36v 250w fitted to a Whyte 46. It’s pretty good but as I use the bike off road quite a lot, I’d like a bit more torque “oomph” so I’m considering buying a 36v 500w (I want to stay at 36v because I have 36v batteries)
    I saw in one of your answers here that the most noticeable difference was in the top two assist modes (which I’m using most). Do you think the difference is enough to justify buying a new motor?
    I don’t want to go down the firmware route – I use Macs anyway and don’t have access to a PC.
    Thanks for any advice. Your site has been most useful.
    Cheers,
    Peter.

    Reply
    • January 10, 2021 at 3:23 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Peter,

      It really depends on your personal fitness and the sort of terrain you’re tackling. I’ve used a 36v 500w TSDZ2 for a period of time and found I never needed to use it above ‘tour’ mode, but I also ride a lot on a regular road bike and I’m used to the steep hills in Cornwall. Riding the 250w and 500w side by side there is definitely a noticeable difference in the top two modes particularly when climbing steep hills. Whether it’s enough to justify the expense of another motor it’s hard to say for sure. They do seem to have come down in price a little compared to last year though, so it may be worth trying the 500w.

      Let me know if you upgrade and feel free to share your thoughts here.

      Cheers,
      Tony

      Reply
      • January 11, 2021 at 11:40 am
        Permalink

        Value for Money

        9

        Ease of Installation

        8

        Reliability

        8

        Thanks, Tony.
        I’m medium fitness (or excellent fitness for 59). I spend time on trails, more technical than leaping about, so I enjoy the torque of the motor at lower speeds quite often. I think I’ll probably give the 500w a go.
        I’m assuming I could leave all the wiring on the bike and just swap out the motor.
        Thanks again for your reply and informative site.

        Reply
        • January 11, 2021 at 3:26 pm
          Permalink

          Hi Peter,

          Yes, you can leave the wiring for the display and speed sensor in place. It should just be a case of swapping out the motor and reconnecting everything.

          All the best,
          Tony

          Reply
          • January 11, 2021 at 9:45 pm
            Permalink

            Value for Money

            9

            Ease of Installation

            9

            Reliability

            8

            Hi Tony,
            Sorry to bug you again but I had a thought that might be useful for others too (if I’m correct).
            Could I just open up the motor and swap the 36v 250w controller for a 36v 500w one? £40 is a lot cheaper than £250.
            As I understand it, there’s only the two motors – 36 and 48 volt, just different firmware on the controller. I assume the controller (when sold separately) is supplied with the appropriate firmware on it and doesn’t need to be flashed.
            I’ve been trawling the endless-sphere long post but can’t find any indicators about this.
            Thanks for any info you have about this, and I’ll shut up now.

          • January 12, 2021 at 10:50 am
            Permalink

            Hi Peter,

            Although I’ve never tried swapping out controllers, I don’t see any reason why it shouldn’t work as the 36v motors are all the same internally. As far as I know the only difference is the firmware, just make sure you get one with corresponding pins for the display (6 or 8 pin connector).

            Cheers,
            Tony

      • February 7, 2021 at 6:37 pm
        Permalink

        Value for Money

        9.5

        Ease of Installation

        0

        Reliability

        0

        Tony, I installed a Tsdz2 on my wife’s full suspension mountain bike and it was working fine but now the assist is stuck at one level, possibly 5, even when it is set to 0. I reinstalled it because it was touching the chainstay and someone suggested that it may be a issue with the torque sensor. Nothing changed since the reinstall.

        Reply
        • February 7, 2021 at 8:48 pm
          Permalink

          Hi Dale,

          It’s not a problem I’ve come across before. I would suspect it has something more to do with the display/control unit. Torque sensor faults usually manifest differently such as erratic or inconsistent assist when pedalling (sometimes with the power surging). I would contact the supplier and see if they’re willing to send out a new display for you to try. A fault in the controller (inside the motor) could also cause this kind of problem.

          Sorry I couldn’t give a more definitive answer. Please let me know how you get on.

          Regards,
          Tony

          Reply
        • April 1, 2021 at 9:03 pm
          Permalink

          Value for Money

          9.5

          Ease of Installation

          9.5

          Reliability

          7

          Dear Dale,

          This looks similar to the issue I have with my TSDZ2 motor (mine is the coaster brake version, but I do not think it makes any difference).
          Let me tell you what I get and tell me if you have the same.
          I have my motor for 1 year already and it worked perfectly until few weeks ago when I started to experience the following problem: after switching it on and letting it to initialize (no push on the pedals, I know that), I first wanted to switch on the lights, because it was getting dark, but the lights did not switch on. Then I start riding the bike and when I pushed on the pedal the motor engaged at full thrust as it was in the 4th level, when I was actually in the 1st. So, in order to figure out what was going on, I put it on OFF and it was still pushing at full thrust.

          Now, the problem is that it happens randomly.
          Since I have got it for the first time, few week ago, I disconnected all the wires and connected them back and the problem was gone. But just for a while. I was initially happy because I thought it was solved, but few days ago it popped up again just out of the blue. Then, it was gone again. Today I took a ride with my bike and everything worked normally. I am curious to see when it will happen again. It is very weird.

          Is this similar to the issue you have?

          Reply
        • July 10, 2021 at 2:14 pm
          Permalink

          Value for Money

          10

          Ease of Installation

          8

          Reliability

          6

          Interesting. Any news on that? I am just having the same problem. (motor blocked on maximum assist level, regardless of the setting). It has worked fine for one year, then it stayed on a shelf for a while, and the other day I took it apart and back together (https://github.com/OpenSourceEBike/TSDZ2_wiki/wiki/How-to-improve-motor-heat-dissipation) before re-installing it on another bike. My guess is that a wire got squeezed / disconnected in the dissassembly / reassembly, or during storage…

          Reply
  • December 25, 2020 at 8:13 pm
    Permalink

    Value for Money

    9

    Ease of Installation

    6

    Reliability

    7

    Hi Tony,
    Congratulations with your very interesting website on the Tongsheng conversion!
    May I appeal to you with my battery indication problem?
    I recently installed the TSDZ2 mid drive motor on an old, completely refurnished bike.
    Preliminary I used a 5 years old rack battery, which is normally connected by means of a docking station. I decided to connect the TSDZ2 directly to the battery using two of the five poles (the outside + and –). This seems to work fine, except the battery indication on my VLDC6 display. It always remains on full capacity as if there is no consumption. I wondered whether this has something to do with the 5 poles. The function of all these poles is not clear to me. Why does a bike battery needs 5 poles in stead of just a plus and a min? And why would it be that the battery indication does not work in my case?
    Kind regards from Belgium,
    Eddy

    Reply
    • December 26, 2020 at 6:47 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Eddy,

      If it’s a rack battery that you’re using, the 5 poles could possibly be: Output (to motor + and -), Input (charging + and -), battery on/off switch (usually the key or sometimes a separate switch). The power connector to the motor shouldn’t have any effect on the accuracy of the VLCD6 display. I have used the VLCD6 on a few builds and it always seems to be fairly accurate. It may be something to do with the age of the battery (BMS possibly) but it’s difficult to say for sure. It might be worth buying a spare display to see if the battery gauge works the same.

      I hope this information helps, if you need any more advice, please let me know.

      All the best,
      Tony

      Reply
      • January 25, 2021 at 7:50 pm
        Permalink

        Value for Money

        9

        Ease of Installation

        8

        Reliability

        9

        Hi Tony,
        Thanks for your support!
        In the mean time I have a new battery and the indication on the display is ok now. So the problem was the old battery…
        Kind regards,
        Eddy

        Reply
        • January 25, 2021 at 10:47 pm
          Permalink

          You’re welcome. Glad you’ve got the problem sorted.

          All the best,
          Tony

          Reply
  • December 20, 2020 at 2:08 am
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    Value for Money

    10

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    10

    Reliability

    0

    Hi Tony, I live in New zealand. I bought a 750w 52v version in lockdown and just fitted it! i cannot get the screen to power up. I have made my own battery pack 14s2p high powered 10amp batteries. The voltage is at about 56v, my question is:
    Is there an overvoltage protection?
    Also how do i know what motor I have? I bought it on Amazon as the 52v version but is there somwehre on the motor that can verify this?

    Reply
    • December 21, 2020 at 12:36 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Jon,
      Tongsheng don’t officially produce a 52v version, the kits available from Amazon, eBay and Aliexpress have modified firmware to allow for the slightly higher voltage (58.8v max). Your 56v battery should work fine, providing the maximum charged voltage doesn’t exceed 60v.

      There are two versions of the TSDZ2 that I’m aware of, one that has a maximum motor rpm of 4000, and one of 4500 – this is usually on a label on the underside of the motor.

      I hope this helps, if you have any more questions, let me know.

      Cheers,
      Tony

      Reply
  • November 24, 2020 at 9:01 pm
    Permalink

    Hi Tony

    Congratulations on your site and thank you for sharing your knowledge.

    I think I have decided on the tongsheng for my needs but I just have a query regarding gearing, I wonder if you can help.

    My donor bike is currently 3×7 gear setup with 26-36-46 110bcd up front and 11-32 out back. Used on roads and bridleways all year round.

    What approach to gearing would you reccommend please? Would the 7 be enough with the single ring that comes with the Tongsheng now the bike has ‘assist’ or would I need to go double? If so is it easy to change the Tongsheng to double or even triple?

    Furthermore, I do struggle with q factor sometimes on some bikes. Before I commit could you advise on whether the shimano cranks you mention are generally easy to get hold of and if ao how much usually?

    Thanks very much in advance.
    Tim

    Reply
    • November 24, 2020 at 10:16 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Tim,

      Glad you like my site, positive comments are always very much appreciated.

      In answer to your question, I would say that an 11-32 rear cassette combined with the stock 42t chainring should give you enough gear range for climbing hills with a sustained gradient of 8-10%, although you would need to rely on the higher power setting. If your bike has flat handlebars then it would be fairly cheap to upgrade to an 11-40 9-speed rear cassette (assuming your bike wheel has a freehub and not a threaded fitment). You would also need a Shimano Alivio RD-M4000 rear derailleur as this can handle a 40t low on the cassette (with adjustment of the ‘b’ screw) and also a Shimano 9-speed trigger shifter – Alivio, Acera or Deore will do the job. The last thing you’ll need is a 9-speed chain with 114 links – the KMC X9 is a good all-rounder chain and not too expensive.

      I’ve never fitted a double to the Tongsheng although I’ve spoken with people who have and it does tend to work better with fewer gears at the back, so you could retain your 7-speed set-up. You will need a front derailleur with a wide swing due to the chainring offset.

      The Shimano Steps E6000 crank arms do make a lot of difference and definitely make for a more natural riding feel (over the stock crank arms). They’re available on eBay from a UK seller for £54 for the pair which I think is a bit expensive, the last pair I brought was from Germany, but they don’t have them in stock anymore. Here is a link to the eBay product page.

      I hope this info helps, if you have any more questions, please let me know.

      Cheers,
      Tony

      Reply
  • November 20, 2020 at 9:29 pm
    Permalink

    Value for Money

    9

    Ease of Installation

    10

    Reliability

    9

    Hi, Tony.
    I disassembled my TONGSHENG TSDZ2 motor and got to the torque sensor. I unscrewed it and now I can’t install it correctly. How to adjust the torque sensor correctly? Any advice?
    All the best Victor

    Reply
  • November 20, 2020 at 10:07 am
    Permalink

    Hi Tony,
    I am angry and sad for my Tongsheng BB 100mm 500w 48v that have installed on my Fat Bike. For the second time the axle 100mm at side of the right crank arm broken while was normally biking also causing me some injury on the legs and the bike unusable for a while… The first time it was after less than 1000km, the second after 1600km, and to replace it you need to disassembly all the motor. I guess there is an issue with the long axle tongsheng 100mm as never heard about this on the normal 73mm. Now I do not feel safe to buy and replace again the axle knowing it will be broken again, pity. Do you know if there are other kit mid motor 100mm for Fat Bike with the torque sensor? Pity that Bafang do not have this option, as I like it a lot. I do not recommend the installation of the BB 100mm, unless tongsheng will solve the issue with the fragility of the axle. Kind regards, Fabio

    Reply
    • November 20, 2020 at 1:20 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Fabio,

      Sorry to hear of your problems and thank you for sharing this information. I have recently seen posts regarding this issue on a couple of forums, so it’s not an isolated problem. It could be down to poor design or engineering quality of the extender.

      The latest CYC X1 Pro has a torque sensor and is available to fit a 100mm bottom bracket. It’s quite an expensive system, but has some very good reviews and can accept anything from a 36v – 72v battery. Here is a link to their website for more information.

      Kind regards,
      Tony

      Reply
      • November 21, 2020 at 5:02 pm
        Permalink

        Hi Tony,
        you are the guru of the ebikes :=)
        Do you know if the axle 100/120mm is from Tongsheng or is a third part stuff, such as e-bird store? This could explain the poor quality. I wish to contact Tongsheng to warn them about this issue, but cannot find any direct site, any idea?
        CYC X1 seems to be great, but indeed the price is expensive. I wonder if you have some feedback from the Bafang with bb 100mm, just to avoid having the same issue of the axle Tongsheng.
        Do you think that moving from Tongsheng to Bafang I will be upset? I mainly use the bike for commuting or long rides, in a tour mode or economy, not looking for the power or speed, but for the plaisure and feeling of having the support of a motor whenever needed. I like to DIY, but also wish to have a lasting and safe motor kit in the view to do some long tour in Europe. Maybe the Bafang BBSHD, although I do not need all his power, is the best compromise. But I will miss the Tongsheng torque sensor… Best,
        Fabio

        Reply
        • November 21, 2020 at 7:27 pm
          Permalink

          Hi Fabio,

          I know one of the guys at Tongsheng and they do not manufacture the BB extension, it is a third-party add-on. Their official website is tsbicycle.net.

          Regarding the Bafang BBSHD, I agree that it is very powerful but you can really fine-tune the pedal assist using a USB lead and the configuration software. You can alter all sorts of parameters like the start current, keep current and the speed with which the power ramps up plus the degree of pedal rotation before the assist starts. In my experience the BBSHD is very reliable, especially when used well within its power capabilities. You can also fine-tune the individual assist level settings making it very smooth on the uptake.

          Back in 2016 I used to own a BBSHD hardtail mountain bike and I very rarely used it above level 3 (out of 9). I regularly got a range of 130km out of a 48v 17.5Ah battery. They guy who brought it off me is still using it to this day having covered over 8000km. Generally they are very reliable, I’ve fitted the 100mm BB version to 6 different fat bikes over the last few years and there have never been any issues.

          Kind regards,
          Tony

          Reply
          • November 22, 2020 at 6:14 pm
            Permalink

            Hi Tony,
            you are right, the axle 100/120mm are third party add on. There are many fat bikers complaining about broken axle on https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=98361&start=50 so that is clear that there is a big issue here. I contacted the e-bird store and apparently there should be an ‘improved’ axle available in a month, so that I will give a last try, before to archive the Tongsheng and buy a Bafang BBSHD.
            Will keep you posted.
            As usual a big thanks for your help!
            Fabio

          • November 22, 2020 at 9:23 pm
            Permalink

            Hi Fabio,

            Thanks for the update, much appreciated. Let me know how things go.

            All the best,
            Tony

  • November 15, 2020 at 10:05 am
    Permalink

    Hi Tony,
    Great website. Really helpful.

    I was considering installing a Tongsheng motor on my Iron Horse 6point which has an 83mm BB. I’ve seen you can get an extender for wider BB shells but I’ve also read they can snap.

    Any advice?

    Cheers

    Buzz

    Reply
    • November 15, 2020 at 4:20 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Buzz,

      I haven’t personally fitted an TSDZ2 motor with the BB extender. I know a couple of people who’ve used them to convert fat bikes and they haven’t had any problems so far. You can purchase them from Aliexpress already converted to 100mm and 120mm, there should be a link to the supplier elsewhere in this article. If you’re going to be installing the extender yourself you will need to have engineering tools and experience (or know an engineer) to do the job properly. I’ve also read on a forum somewhere of the shaft extenders failing, whether these are isolated cases or not it’s hard to say.

      If you do decide to go ahead and convert your bike, please let me know how it goes.

      Cheers,
      Tony

      Reply
      • November 24, 2020 at 2:09 pm
        Permalink

        Thanks for the reply Tony.

        I actually read enough bad things about the crank extender to put me off (plus I didn’t really want to mess up my Iron Horse).

        Anyway, I picked up an On One Codein FS 29er for a song which I’m going to convert instead. Got the 750w TSDZ2 kit from PSWPower via their AliExpress site for £231 which seemed pretty decent.

        Planning on running RC LiPos. Two 6S 6000Mah in series which would give me a 44.4V (50.4V fully charged) 6Ah pack which will fit easily in a frame bag. I can carry another in my backpack. I’ve used LiPos for years and have plenty of charging capabilities. PLus I can run them in my RC cars too!

        Any tips for running LiPos? I assume you can set the LVC in the controller? I’m planning on running the Open Source Fork that allows you to run it on the original display before later diving fully into all the Open Source stuff.

        Gearing? The On One has a 1×11 with a 30T/11-42T setup. If I use the Tongsheng 42T chainring should I go 11-52T on the back? The bike is purely for climbing and descending on singletrack in the Scottish hills and at trail centres.

        Cheers

        Buzz

        Reply
        • November 24, 2020 at 5:51 pm
          Permalink

          Hi Buzz,

          I haven’t used LiPo batteries before with any TSDZ2 builds, but I don’t see any problems, especially if you’re going to be using the Open source software you will be able to set the LVC there. As far as I’m aware, you can’t set the LVC using the display.

          Regarding gearing, you can use a standard 110BCD chainring or buy a 104BCD adaptor. I’ve used a 34t chainring before, the only issue is caused by the offset chainline (in the lowest gear on the cassette). The standard 42t chainring is dished in slightly to compensate for this. If your rear mech will handle a 52t low at the back it may be worth sticking with the stock Tongsheng chainring.

          Let me know how the build goes.

          Cheers,
          Tony

          Reply
  • October 27, 2020 at 5:47 pm
    Permalink

    Hi Tony,

    I hope i’ve sent this enquiry in the correct window? (If not – apologies and please direct me to the appropriate link – thanks)…

    Like a number of other trike riders, I am considering the practicalities of using a TSDZ2 on my ICE Sprint26 to enable me to be e-assisted for more regular (hilly) commutes and greater range on those weekend ride outs for pleasure…

    I’ve noticed from other trike adaptations out there, that there is a noticable asymmetry (to the right) of the installation with this unit, of approximately 17mm, which as well as increasing the Q-factor, perhaps heightens this psychologically for the potential e rider…

    Do riders find this noticably off-putting?

    Can a change of brand of cranks reduce this/or the fitting of a less curved R/H crank only help?

    I run 160mm cranks at present… can you recommend suppliers/a brand/type compatable with the Tongsheng square taper axle which would offer this size or even a shorter crank (say 155mm or 152mm)… I am 5′ 6″ – hence this crank choice…

    Noise pinion/motor – this has come up in discussions from time to time I’ve noticed… is it mainly from the pinon gear area?…and the more duarble metal pinions are even nosier I understand!… Can a re-pack of suitable grease alleviate this to some extent?… are the units now imported/sold now fitted with the later & quieter torque sensor design?… Are the considerably more expensive Shimano Steps units much quieter in your opinion?

    I see that some of the units recently purchased and fitted by riders are the 48V (250W) types… are these offering a greater torque whilst still being the road legal 250W max?…

    Lots of questions here I realise!… I hope you may be able to assist.

    Thank you.

    Reply
    • October 27, 2020 at 8:22 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Melvyn,

      I’ve fitted the TSDZ2 to seven Ice Trikes so far, and the q-factor can be somewhat reduced by using the old style Shimano Steps FC-E6000 crank arms, although these only seem to be available in 170mm-175mm length. Bafang BBS motor crank arms are available from China (via Aliexpress) and do seem to be available in 152mm length (link here).

      As far as motor noise concerned, there seems to be a noticeable difference from motor to motor. I’ve installed around 40 TSDZ2 motors to date – some are fairly quiet and some quite audible. I have found that some motors aren’t particularly well greased, and adding Mobilegrease28 can reduce the motor noise. If you choose to fit the brass primary gear a good dollop of grease is recommended, the motor will be noisier initially, although it will quieten down after a couple of hundred miles.

      My own personal ebike uses a Shimano Steps E6100 motor – it’s much quieter than the Tongsheng, and also smoother and more efficient in operation. Although this system does cost considerably more (especially when fitted by ICE). Having also owned a TSDZ2-powered ebike, I feel the Tongsheng offers the best value for money for a plug-and-play crank-drive ebike system. The Torque sensor is very responsive to pedalling input and feels very close in function to the Shimano and Bosch ebike motors.

      Having fitted both the 36v and 48v versions, the main difference is the 48v can operate at 250w at a lower current (A) than the 36v. There doesn’t appear to be any noticeable difference in performance or efficiency between the two systems.

      I hope this info helps, if you have any more questions, please let me know.

      All the best,
      Tony

      Reply
      • October 27, 2020 at 10:41 pm
        Permalink

        Hi Tony,

        Thanks so much for your prompt reply and such useful insights!

        I’d love a Steps ICE trike but at the moment I can’t quite justify the £££ difference… However, I’m hoping I can save my knees with the TSDZ2 and learn a lot along the way without feeling I’m cheating too much!

        I’ll keep in touch as I continue this journey of exploration… I’m sure I’ll touch base with you regarding batteries very shortly.

        Kind regards,

        Melvyn

        Reply
        • October 28, 2020 at 11:38 am
          Permalink

          Hi Melvyn,

          You’re welcome, anytime you need advice, give me a shout.

          Cheers,
          Tony

          Reply
      • May 2, 2021 at 2:15 pm
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        Value for Money

        0.5

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        0

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        0

        I want to convert my wife’s giant liv bike and was looking at the bafangym mid drive but now have dicovered your site. I like how the tonshen offers assist. Two questions , how much does the motor interfere with the rear derailleur cabling . I can modify the cable guide on the bafang. Would I need to reroute the cable on the tonsheng? Also with either option what is the best battery placement considering its a ladies bike, without any water bottle attachment hardware. Great site by the way.

        Reply
        • May 2, 2021 at 8:44 pm
          Permalink

          Hi Bill,

          With the Bafang you can usually get away with modifying the existing cable guide or fitting a lower profile cable guide. The TSDZ2 can be a pain if the cables are routed under the bottom bracket. Usually you’ll need to completely re-route the cables as there’s rarely enough room for even a cable with outer.

          Regarding battery placement, you’d be best off with a rack battery. You could drill a couple of holes and fit riv-nuts on the top of the downtube, but it will reduce the stand-over height substantially.

          If you have any more questions, let me know.

          Cheers,
          Tony

          Reply
  • October 13, 2020 at 11:17 pm
    Permalink

    Hi Tony,
    Thank you for writing a very helpful internet page on the Tongsheng.
    I have a couple of questions.
    Would I be able to buy the 52V motor but run it with a 48V battery?
    (That way I would have the option to upgrade to a 52V (14S) battery in future should I wish)
    Or will a voltage cut-off take effect, thereby not allowing me to discharge the 48V battery very much.
    Second thing, can I run a throttle on any of the motors, or do they need to be 6 pin (or was it 8 pin) for this to work?
    Many thanks in advance,
    Julian

    Reply
    • October 14, 2020 at 7:23 am
      Permalink

      Hi Julian,

      I haven’t personally tried a 48v battery on a motor configured for 52v, but I don’t see any reason why a 48v battery wouldn’t work as the low voltage cut-off point on 52v batteries is usually the same (around 41v). You will need the 8-pin connector in order to use a throttle.

      I hope this helps, glad you like the article. If you have any more questions, let me know.

      Cheers,
      Tony

      Reply
      • October 14, 2020 at 7:52 pm
        Permalink

        Thank you Tony!
        I was more talking about a voltage cut-off in the motor controller? Are you aware if they upped the controller cut-off for the 52 V model? This is more my concern than the battery.
        Julian

        Reply
        • October 14, 2020 at 8:29 pm
          Permalink

          Hi Julian,

          It might be worth asking the supplier for a clear answer as a lot of the suppliers apply their own settings at the controller. According to my source at Tongsheng, they don’t specifically manufacture a 52v version and all the 52v versions sold have modified firmware (by the vendors). I would assume that considering 48v and 52v batteries usually have the same (or very close) low voltage cut-off points that the controller would be configured to reflect this.

          Let me know what they say, as it would be useful to know.

          Many thanks,
          Tony

          Reply
          • October 16, 2020 at 11:37 pm
            Permalink

            Hi Tony,
            I sent a message to a seller on AliExpress- Ebird Store, asking whether I could fit a 48V battery to a 52V motor. I also asked if there is a voltage cutoff on the controller. The only reply I got was “52V motor only fit 52v battery ,pls note”.
            To be honest, it looks as though I will have to buy a kit and find out for myself!
            Best wishes,
            Julian

          • October 17, 2020 at 9:18 am
            Permalink

            Hi Julian,

            That’s a very vague reply from the seller! I know you definitely can’t use a 52v battery with the 48v version as the ‘over voltage’ protection comes into play. There’s only 4.4v difference between a fully charged 52v and 48v and if you look at the specs of most 52v batteries the low voltage cut-off always seems to be between 39v-41v. Let me know how it works out, and if you have any issues using a 48v battery.

            Many thanks,
            Tony

  • October 12, 2020 at 8:23 pm
    Permalink

    Hi tony
    I’m coming back to you about my orbea katu conversion.
    This bike has a sturmey archer 5 speed hub. Will it go good with the tsdz2?
    I’m thinking of buying the 750w. Should I go for a less powerful version?
    I would like the vlcd6 version with throttle. Do you know where can I find it as a kit?
    Thank you once again
    Mário

    Reply
    • October 12, 2020 at 9:14 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Mario,

      Although I haven’t worked on a bike with the Sturmey Archer RX-RK5, I believe it’s quite reliable and okay to use with a mid-drive motor. I have installed the TSDZ2 on bikes with the Shimano Nexus hub gears without any issues, so I would assume there shouldn’t be any problems with the Sturmey Archer. Here is a link to a thread on endless-sphere that mentions the RX-RK5. The 750w motor should be okay as long as you stop / ease off pedalling when you change gear. Shifting when under load (from the motor) is likely to reduce the service life of the hub. There is a supplier on Aliexpress that has the 750w 48v version in Poland (with thumb throttle) but they only supply with the VLCD5 display. Here is a link to the listing. They do the version with the VLCD6 and thumb throttle but it is shipped from China.

      I hope this helps.

      All the best,
      Tony

      Reply
  • September 18, 2020 at 5:26 pm
    Permalink

    Dear Tony,
    I need your help concerning the installation of the Tongsheng on a MTB with a press fit BB Shimano SM BB71-41. Looking on internet I can see there are 3 models shimano: BB71-41-A, BB71-41-B and BB71-41-C. Not sure which model is mine as there is no letter on it. They all have Pressfit Diameter 41mm bottom bracket Shell and Chain Wheel Axle Diameter 24mm. If I understand well the only difference between them is the Shell Width that go from 89.5 to 107mm. The BB installed on the bike measure 97mm, I did not removed yet. It is not clear from your site if I can buy an adapter on the site you linked (Aliexpress) or it is a work for a specialist. On that site I can identify the model named Pressfit PFGXP that seems to match mine, but it says ‘Shell Type: BB86 BB90’. Any advise/help on this? Kind regards,
    Fabio

    Reply
    • September 18, 2020 at 8:51 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Fabio,

      BB86 or BB90 would be very difficult indeed, and would require significant skilled engineering modifications to the bottom bracket area. The TSDZ2 was only really designed to fit a regular BSA threaded BB with a 68mm-73mm width and 33.6mm internal diameter.

      The other big problem with PF BB’s and the Tongsheng, is the design of the motor only allows for limited clearance between the motor shaft and housing. So even if you had (for example) a PF30 BB which is 68-73mm but with an internal diameter of 41mm and used a reducer shim, there would not be enough clearance to fit the motor.

      The best advice I can give is to find a donor bike that has a regular BSA threaded BB – Shimano Hollowtech II (or cartridge BB-UN55), SRAM GXP or FSA MegaExo.

      I hope this helps.

      Kind regards,
      Tony

      Reply
      • October 26, 2020 at 6:20 pm
        Permalink

        Hi Tony,

        My bike: Specialized Sirrus X 2.0 –
        Year: (2020)
        Frame size: Large

        Motor: TSDZ 48V

        I took it to a specialized bike shop and they said the motor does not fit into the crank :(. They said it can fit by filing down the bike but they don’t recommend that. Are there any other torque sensing kits that I could purchase? What do you think?

        Reply
        • October 27, 2020 at 10:03 am
          Permalink

          Hi,

          I have converted a couple of older Specialized Sirrus hybrids before and they were straightforward. But they had external cable routing. Looking at the specification of the 2020 Sirrus X 2.0 specification, the bottom bracket should be compatible (as it is a regular BSA threaded type). It may be the internal cable routing housing that’s getting in the way. I’ve had this issue with Cube Acid hardtail MTB’s before. The only other plug-and-play torque-sensing motor that I’m aware of is the Lingei LB-01, but I still couldn’t say whether this would fit your Sirrus or not (unless I had one in front of me). I’ve looked at photos of your bike on Specialized’s website and I can’t see any obvious reason why the TSDZ2 wouldn’t fit.

          Can you let me know where your LBS said the filing needed to be done, it’s possible that there are slight burrs / protrusions inside the bottom bracket shell, where the various tubes converge – filing these down to facilitate installation is quite normal.

          Regards,
          Tony

          Reply
    • October 6, 2020 at 11:10 am
      Permalink

      Hi Tony,

      Will the TSD2Z 750watt kit fit on a 202 specialized sirrus X hybrid frame (Large)

      Reply
      • October 6, 2020 at 7:46 pm
        Permalink

        Hi,

        Yes, the TSDZ2 will fit the Specialized Sirrus X hybrid. The only thing you may need to do is re-route the rear shifter and hydraulic brake cable (if it exits underneath the bottom bracket shell). Apart from that it should be a fairly straightforward conversion.

        Regards,
        Tony

        Reply
  • September 16, 2020 at 12:52 pm
    Permalink

    Value for Money

    9

    Ease of Installation

    9

    Reliability

    9

    Hi Tony

    I built an ebike from a Kona explosif 2005, a TSDZ2 48v 750w and a hailong 48v 13ah battery.
    I love it. It’s ideal for a morning in the woods nearby and i’m using it more and more instead of the car.
    I am 60 years old, so I wouldn’t be able to enjoy a ride in the mountains because to go there i have to climb a lot. With the TSDZ2 it’s sudenly possible again.
    Realy nice motor, friendly yet powerfull.
    Building it was easy. I have some experience from maintaining my bicycles but I am not a mechanic and I found very simple. I even managed to change a vlcd 5 to a a smaller vlcd6. Raly easy with the right cable.
    I´m thinking about building another project with a small orbea katu 50 and I’m afraid that the TSDZ2 750w will be too much power for the little bike.
    Can you give me a feed back about what would be the best motor for this build?
    Mid motor or hub motor?
    I came across the littokala cheap batteries on aliexpress. Do you have any experience with this batteries?
    Thank you very much for your site and all the really good and objective advise that I found in it.
    Without you it woud have much more difficult to choose the right converion and get to this nice bike.

    Kind Regards

    Mario Dias

    Reply
    • September 16, 2020 at 4:12 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Mario,

      I know someone from Denmark who converted a Katu using the 48v 500w TSDZ2 with excellent results. I believe their version had the Shimano Nexus 8 IGH. Apparently the conversion was fairly straightforward – here is a link to the battery pack that was used.

      Regarding the Liitokala batteries, I haven’t any personal experience with this brand, although having looked at the feedback on Aliexpress, they seem to be okay.

      If you need any more advice, please let me know.

      All the best,
      Tony

      Reply
  • September 11, 2020 at 10:21 am
    Permalink

    Hi, Tony,
    firstly congratulate you and thank you for all the information you provide on the web.
    My comment is because I would like to install in my old mountain bike (I don’t know what make it was) a 250W TSDZ2.
    I have measured my bike and the bottom bracket is made of Italian thread and measures 70mm in length and 36mm in diameter, so I am not sure if it is possible to mount the TSDZ2 on it.
    My intention is to use it to go to work on roads without many slopes. The distance to work is 25Km, which would be approximately 50Km round trip.
    This are my questions:
    – Can I install the 250W TSDZ2 on my old bike?
    – How many Ah should the battery buy to travel 50Km of distance, considering that I like to pedal and go with a slow cadence?
    – On the other hand, I have the doubt whether it is necessary to install the cutting brakes since in some kits they are included and in others they are not included. With which I do not know what difference there is between an engine without cutting brakes and with them.
    Well, see if you can give me a hand.
    Thank you very much in advance.
    Regards.

    Reply
    • September 11, 2020 at 6:56 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Miguel,

      Thank you for your compliments, much appreciated. I’m glad you’ve found my website useful.

      In answer to your question regarding compatibility – I have never installed a TSDZ2 on a bike with an Italian threaded bottom bracket, but I have checked the exact dimensions of the Italian BB and it is going to be just over 1mm too large in diameter, so you will need to make a shim to make the motor shaft a snug fit. The outer diameter of the Tongsheng motor shaft is approximately 34.5mm and can fit bottom bracket shells up to 73mm wide.

      If you decide to make a shim, you will need to bear in mind that there is very limited clearance between the motor shaft and housing, so if your rear derailleur cable is routed underneath the BB, you will need to re-route it.

      Regarding battery range, I would recommend at least a 36v 13Ah, but maybe go for a 36v 14.5Ah. If you go for a good quality 13Ah battery and you do not use full power constantly, then that should do the job. But if you would prefer having a bit of battery energy in reserve, I would go for a 14.5Ah.

      The Tongsheng does motor kit is only supplied with brake cut-off levers, if there is a throttle supplied. The normal pedal assist-only motor kit doesn’t need a brake cut-off as the motor can only be operated when force is applied through the pedals.

      I hope this information helps, if you have any more questions please let me know.

      Regards,
      Tony

      Reply
  • September 7, 2020 at 4:08 pm
    Permalink

    Value for Money

    10

    Ease of Installation

    10

    Reliability

    10

    Hi Tony,
    Thank you for your freely given advice and information on the site.
    Planning to do a 48V 500W Tongsheng conversion on a full suspension mtb so no room for battery on top of downtube.
    Thoughts on mounting battery below downtube (as in one of your customer’s photos)?
    Many thanks….Ian

    Reply
    • September 7, 2020 at 7:02 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Ian,

      It depends on the size of battery, frame geometry and how much travel your forks have. I did a Marin FS MTB a few years back and even with the battery as close to the Bottom bracket as possible the tyres still rubbed on the casing when braking hard on a descent. I reckon your best bet would be to get a compact bottle battery, they are available in 48v 7Ah which is a fairly low energy capacity, but it should still give you a range of around 30 miles or so. If you required more range, you could purchase a spare and keep it in a rucksack for longer days in the saddle. These batteries have an alloy casing so are more durable and are about the same size as a 1ltr sports bottle. You would probably need a couple of good velcro straps to hold it in place.

      If you need any more advice, please let me know.

      All the best,
      Tony

      Reply
    • September 13, 2020 at 5:14 am
      Permalink

      Hi Tony, You have helped me with my decision to buy the Tongsheng motor. I have a 2017 Giant Cypress DX extra small frame Ann was wondering if the 500w motor would fit. Also I’ve been looking at DHgate, they had a deal for the 500w motor with a 47v 15ah battery. Are they a reliable company? The suppler is greenergia.

      Reply
      • September 13, 2020 at 7:08 pm
        Permalink

        Hi David,

        The Tongsheng should be a straightforward installation on the Giant Cypress as all the rear cables run underneath the top tube. Because yours in an extra small frame, it would be worth measuring the available space in the frame triangle. Due to the sloping top tube it might be a tight fit getting a Hailong case battery in there. These batteries are usually 365mm (L) x 90mm (W) x 110mm (H).

        I’ve purchased kits from Greenergia before (through Aliexpress) and never had any issues with them, so you should be fine on purchasing from their DH Gate store.

        All the best,
        Tony

        Reply
  • September 6, 2020 at 11:26 am
    Permalink

    Value for Money

    10

    Ease of Installation

    10

    Reliability

    10

    Hi Tony,

    Thanks to the clear information on your website and the links to reliable suppliers, I have successfully converted my tired old Kona Hahanna into an E-Bike with the Tongshen TSDZ2 36V 350W motor and a
    36Volt Water Bottle Electric Bike Battery 36V 11.6Ah 418Wh from UPP.

    I Decided on the VLCD 5 as my display option as it has a nice clear LARGE numbers for my failing eyesight!!!

    In the settings menu there is an option to adjust the “Assist ratio”, the default is “16”.
    Would it harm the motor or battery if I was adjust this setting to the Max setting of “32”?

    I have tried it on the “32” setting and it seems more suited to the hilly enviroment where I live.

    Thanks for all the information you have supplied on this site, I would not have attempted to convert my bike had I not found you.

    Best Regards.

    Will.

    Reply
    • September 6, 2020 at 1:26 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Will,

      The ‘assist ratio’ setting alters the sensitivity of the pedal assist so it’s perfectly fine to change it to suit your needs.

      All the best,
      Tony

      Reply
  • September 5, 2020 at 5:07 pm
    Permalink

    Value for Money

    10

    Ease of Installation

    10

    Reliability

    9

    Hey, this website is incredible and helped me purchase both a TSDZ2 and a BBS02 with confidence, thank you!

    Side note: have you ever had issues with the speed sensor on the TSDZ2? Whenever it’s hooked up, I get no power assist, the speed shows somewhat accurate (adjusted wheel size in settings), and the trip meter adds mileage at a high rate (20-30 miles every 1 mile I ride). If I disconnect the speed sensor everything works great, just no speed readout.

    Reply
    • September 5, 2020 at 9:48 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Matthew,

      Glad you like the website, positive feedback is always appreciated.

      Regarding the issue you’re having with the speed sensor on the TSDZ2, have you checked alignment with the magnet and small arrow on the top of the sensor housing? Another thing that could cause the issue is the sensor being either too far or close to the magnet – ideally there needs to be roughly a 4-5mm gap.

      If both of the above are correct, then it may be worth checking to see if any of the pins are bent on the circular connector, failing that it may just be a faulty sensor.

      Let me know how it works out, and if I can give you any more advice, let me know.

      Cheers,
      Tony

      Reply
  • August 30, 2020 at 1:22 pm
    Permalink

    Hi Tony,
    Thanks so very much for this website and all the informative replies to comments!
    I’m planning to buy the Tongsheng 48v500wa with the water bottle style battery 48v10ah so that I can pull my son on the carrier from kindergarten up the hill back home.
    I’m checking my bike specs and I can’t see what kind of bottom bracket it has and wether it’s compatible with the TSD.
    This is my bike:

    https://www.cube.eu/en/2019/bikes/women/mountainbike/access-ws/cube-access-ws-pro-allroad-auberginenrose-2019/

    I saw a comment with a cube that had the “difficult” kind of bottom bracket but I have no idea if mine does too.
    Will it mainly work? Will I need to purchase additional parts so that it fits? Anything else I should consider? I’m hoping to have a friend put it on the bike 🚲⚡️

    Thanks so much 🙏🏻

    Reply
    • August 30, 2020 at 7:58 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Concha,

      The bottom bracket on your Cube should be a regular threaded type, so it will be compatible with the motor shaft on the TSDZ2. The only issues I’ve had converting Cube bikes is the rear gear cable will need to be re-routed as there will not be enough clearance between the motor housing and bottom bracket shell. The only other thing that may cause an issue is the alloy internal cable housing that runs on the underside of the downtube, you may need to file or cut a small section away to facilitate installation – this is usually necessary when installing a Bafang motor, but may not be required with the Tongsheng.

      I hope this helps, if you have any more questions please let me know.

      All the best,
      Tony

      Reply
      • August 31, 2020 at 5:58 pm
        Permalink

        Hi Tony, thanks so much!
        Yes, these are the cables that I see: cable 1 can be re routed, I guess along the red line on the second picture?
        Cables 2 and 3… can hardly be rerouted because as you say go in the internal tube… this is such an adventure!

        Reply
        • September 1, 2020 at 9:06 am
          Permalink

          Hi Concha,

          Thanks for the photos. It looks like cable 3 goes to the rear derailleur, cable 2 can be removed altogether as you won’t need the front derailleur as the TSDZ2 uses a single chainring, and cable 1 is the rear hydraulic brake hose – you will need to remove the brake caliper (while still attached to the hose) bring it under and around the chainstay so it is above the crank arm / axle. Cable 3 looks more problematic because even with the plastic cable guide removed you may still need to re-route above the motor. It is possible, but it’s a fiddly job and you will probably need to get a completely new gear cable inner with outer housing. It looks like you will have to carefully cut away a small portion of the alloy cable housing without damaging the main downtube – I use a small dremel electric tool with a mini disc cutter.

          You will also need a crank puller and Shimano bottom bracket removal tool and a long breaker bar. Removing the bottom bracket can require a lot of force and the bearing always unscrews towards the front of the bike so the left side unscrews anti-clockwise and the right side (crankset side) unscrews clockwise.

          I hope this helps, if you have any more questions please let me know.

          Regards,
          Tony

          Reply
  • August 27, 2020 at 11:04 am
    Permalink

    Hello Tony, I have a few questions if you don’t mind. I have an early 80s Raleigh 3 speed that I’d like to convert. I’ll be riding about 30-40 leisurely miles at most on fairly hilly cycle paths in the North East of England, and I weigh about 80kg. After much reading I’m still torn, and possibly even more confused, about which system to go for –
    36 volt or 48 volt. The battery I want to use is

    £147.48 51% Off | New Arrival Mini Bottle eBike Battery 48V 36V 10.5Ah 9Ah 7Ah With Samsung/Sanyo Li-ion Cell for 750W 500W 350W 250W Bafang Motor
    https://a.aliexpress.com/_BOAeDU

    As I understand it, 48V will run cooler and draw less current, so give more mileage. Unfortunately it’s only available in 7Ah. So question one is would I get more mileage out of a 36V 10.5Ah battery? I’m set on this style of battery as I intend to paint it (and the motor housing) to match the colour of the bike, and make it a little more in keeping with the aesthetics. Which brings me to my next question;
    Do you know of any cranks and chain rings available in chrome (or any silver) colour? I’d want to keep my chain case too, do you think that would be a problem?
    Lastly, I have a stand fitted to the frame about an inch behind the bottom bracket, will this interfere with mounting the motor? Any other potential issues I should be aware of? I’ve heard the cranks and bottom bracket can be a pig to remove so I’ll be taking it in for that job.
    Thank you very much for your time,
    Kind regards, John

    Reply
    • August 27, 2020 at 3:56 pm
      Permalink

      Hi John,

      Assuming your Raleigh uses a Sturmey Archer hub, then it may be possible your bike has an eccentric bottom bracket (with the pinch bolts underneath).If this is the case, then there’s going to be quite a bit of faffing around to get the motor to fit, and you may need to get an engineer to machine a shim so the motor is a snug fit. You will also need to carefully grind down the pinch bolt clamps. If it has a regular threaded bottom bracket you should be fine.

      If your kickstand is mounted directly behind the bottom bracket (where the chainstays meet the BB shell) you will need to remove it as this is where the motor securing plate would usually be mounted.

      Regarding the battery, a 48v 7Ah (336Wh) has only marginally less energy capacity than a 36v 10.5Ah (378Wh). You’re correct that the higher voltage battery will require less current to achieve the same power level and should also be slightly more efficient. 30-40 miles should be possible, but you would need to be frugal with the pedal assist. If you’re going to be tackling lots of long steep climbs then I would say you’d probably need a battery with a higher energy capacity. It depends on how much you plan on using the assist.

      I hope this info helps, if you have any more questions, please let me know.

      Regards,
      Tony

      Reply
        • August 27, 2020 at 7:36 pm
          Permalink

          Hi John,

          I checked out the link and the chainset SJS have is a 104 BCD so you will need an adaptor. These can be purchased from eBay in a matching polished alloy finish – here is the link. I can’t see any reason why you shouldn’t be able to keep the chain guard. You will need to use the supplied crank arms though (with the Tongsheng motor kit), but you can strip back the black coating and polish them to a matching finish with a polishing wheel.

          All the best,
          Tony

          Reply
          • August 28, 2020 at 9:03 am
            Permalink

            Thanks Tony, much appreciated

          • August 28, 2020 at 9:12 am
            Permalink

            You’re welcome. If you need any more advice let me know.

  • August 22, 2020 at 3:03 pm
    Permalink

    Have you ever installed the TongSheng motor on a Salsa Fargo?
    I have a 2018 utilizing a Rohloff hub. I think this would be a great system to add a mid-drive motor to, but don’t know of anyone who has done it with this set up.

    Reply
    • August 22, 2020 at 6:21 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Bill,

      I’ve never installed a Tongsheng on a Salsa Fargo, but looking at the frame specs on Salsa’s website the bottom bracket is a BSA 73mm threaded. The TSDZ2 should be a perfect fit unless you have an eccentric bottom bracket – I know some bikes that have Rohloff’s fitted as standard have these BB’s for chain / belt tensioning, if this is the case with your frameset, then it could be problematic as there is limited clearance on the motor (between the BB shaft and motor housing).

      If you need any more info, let me know.

      Cheers,
      Tony

      Reply
  • August 16, 2020 at 2:56 pm
    Permalink

    Hi Tony,

    I want to update my Cannondale Super V 600 Fully withe the TSDZ2 set.

    But I cannot find a adapter for installing 3 parallel chainplates in the front for using 34-42-52.

    Thanks for feedback,

    Axel

    Reply
    • August 17, 2020 at 10:10 am
      Permalink

      Hi Axel,

      I think you will have trouble fitting a triple chainring on the Tongsheng. I’m not aware of an adaptor that supports this. If you could do it, the chain-line on the outer ring would be too offset and would effect shifting performance. I would be inclined to settle for a single chainring (5-bolt 110BCD) and maybe change the rear cassette to a 10-speed 11-36 or even 11-42 – if you fitted the latter option you would want something like a Shimano Deore M6000 rear derailluer or you could use a regular Deore XT 10-speed derailleur with a Wolftooth hanger extender.

      I hope this helps, if you need any more info please let me know.

      Cheers,
      Tony

      Reply
      • August 17, 2020 at 1:32 pm
        Permalink

        Hi Tony,

        thanks for your Feedback. I see also a Problem with the locking of the Motor at the Cannondale Fully, because you cannot use the normal locking block with the screw to fix the Motor against Rotation.

        Do you see here a Problem?

        Cheers

        Axel

        Reply
        • August 17, 2020 at 2:29 pm
          Permalink

          Hi Axel,

          Yes, the locking of the motor can be a problem. I have used heavy duty steel jubilee clips in the past – it’s a workaround but looks a bit messy. If you know a decent engineer, it would be possible to fabricate something that clamps on to the lower seat tube (where it meets the bottom bracket shell).

          On the Whyte full suspension MTB TSDZ2 conversion, I used Jubilee clips – that was over a year ago and the motor hasn’t moved, so it does work in most cases.

          Cheers,
          Tony

          Reply
  • August 12, 2020 at 8:20 pm
    Permalink

    Hi Tony, thanks a lot for your excellent review.
    I’m planning to use my Diamondback MTB as donor bike: here are the specs
    https://www.rei.com/product/876859/diamondback-overdrive-sport-29er-bike-2015

    Do you think the Tongsheng will fit considering the crankset (SR Suntour XCR, 44/32/22), the Bottom Bracket (Sealed cartridge) and the chain (KMC Z99)?

    How about the battery? Size? Type? Capacity?
    I’m still not sure about the power: I know just 250w is legal in Europe, I’m wondering if it’s enough for cross country and not extremely steep paths…

    Any suggestions will be welcomed!
    Thanks again

    Reply
    • August 13, 2020 at 8:39 am
      Permalink

      Hi Alessandro,

      The TSDZ2 should be a straightforward fit on your Diamondback MTB, the cable routing is across the top which will make installation easier. I would say the 250w is better suited to mild XC riding. In my experience if you are going to be doing a lot of steep climbs you may be better off with a Bafang BBS01B 250w as you can easily re-configure the controller settings to 18A and modify the pedal assist to be more (or less responsive).

      As far as battery size is concerned the standard Hailong case battery is 365mm (L) x 110mm (H) x 90mm (W) but there is a slightly smaller version that is 90mm (H). If you’re planning on longer rides you would be best to go for a 36v 17.5Ah as this will give you a range of around 100km.

      I hope this helps, if you need any more advice please let me know.

      All the best,
      Tony

      Reply
  • August 12, 2020 at 7:04 am
    Permalink

    Hi Tony,

    Many thanks for a great site stacked full of useful information. I am interested in the Tongsheng 250W on a hybrid conversion. I will be fitting a new chain and 11-40 cassette and would value your thoughts on chain selection. The Shimano and KMC e-bike specific chains are widely available and there may be others. Which chain do you find lasts longest?

    I realize that cycling style has a lot to do with this. I learnt to ride on a single speed bike in a hilly location, so developed strong legs and always used big gears on subsequent geared bikes. After 30 years I had knee trouble and had to learn to use the gears properly and spin with a cadence around 80, which builds up the muscles around the knee joint. As well as curing the knee problem, I found that my chain life was greatly increased.

    Reply
    • August 12, 2020 at 12:20 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Len,

      When I had a Decathlon Hybrid last year (Tongsheng TSDZ2 conversion) with an 11-40 10-speed rear cassette, I used a regular Shimano HG-X 10-speed chain, and found after 500 miles or so (with about 50’000ft of climbing), the chain was still excellent. I’m not entirely convinced that e-bike-specific chains are worth the extra money (over a good quality regular chain). Having said that, I have fitted a Connex and KMC e-bike chain on a couple of conversions and according to the customers they are holding up very well after 1500 miles. I serviced a Voodoo MTB recently fitted with a 1000w Bafang BBSHD mid-drive and the original KMC X10 chain still lasted nearly 2000 miles.

      I hope this helps, if you need any more info, please let me know.

      Cheers,
      Tony

      Reply
  • August 11, 2020 at 6:02 pm
    Permalink

    Hi again Tony,
    Many thanks for your help again ,but now i have a real headache. After your comments about fitting the battery i was fancying into the 17″ frame on my bike,I decided that a meausurement taking session was needed and proceeded to make a template to see what fitted.
    The 17.5 ah samsung cell is a tight fit at 370mm long and the lg cell equivilant and the samsung 14.5 ah cells are only 5 mm shorter. So not a lot of size difference and i would like as many ah as possible ,the heights are the same at 110 mm also and width pretty much the same also.
    Which brings me to my main question. Th top of these batterys appear to have a sloping front end which would give me a bit of wriggle room to play with. with the slope they would fit in the frame ok. But by the looks they have to slide down onto mounting plate to engage with terminals. Do you have any idea how much they would have to move forward of the mounting plate to go over it? I can maybe squeeze a couple of cm spare before hitting the frame. The template which was tight was made as a rectangle of the stated dimensions without allowing for the sloping top if you see what i mean. Sorry to have to pick your brains but as you can appreciate if it dont fit im up the east looe river without a paddle.Don’t really want to fit a rack as i’d like to keep bike looking as it is.
    thanks again Dave

    Reply
    • August 11, 2020 at 10:41 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Dave,

      I reckon you need at least a couple of inches extra up front in order to line the battery up with the runners on the mounting plate. There are side-exit batteries available that would definitely fit in, but due to the smaller size they’re only available in about 48v 10Ah maximum – here is a link to a UK supplier I know on eBay. The other option is to have a chat with Jimmy at ebikebatteries.co.uk. He’s the most knowledgeable person I know regarding e-bike batteries and he can custom-build battery packs.

      Let me know how you get on.

      Cheers,
      Tony

      Reply
      • August 12, 2020 at 3:07 pm
        Permalink

        Thank you Tony for your help, will look into it a bit more and will let you know the outcome of how i get around it.
        Dave

        Reply
      • September 24, 2020 at 3:10 pm
        Permalink

        Hi Tony, An update on battery. I recieved my 17.5 ah battery from upp today and apart from the fact ill have to put one more insert into the frame a little higher up the downtube than where the standard one is ,I’m pleased to report that it is easily accomodated in the 17″ frame. The only problems that were encountered with fitting the motor to this bike was that i could have done with a couple of extra shims for it,but managed to fabricate one on my lathe.
        Apart from that fitting the speed sensor is a bit tight on space. It will be hard to maintain the 10-15mm gap between sensor and spoke magnet ,but did read in an earlier post that you said 4-5 mm. if this does not work is there anywhere you know of in the uk who sells an extension cable? Don’t think i can wait another month to get one from China.

        Reply
        • September 24, 2020 at 7:25 pm
          Permalink

          Hi Dave,

          If you have the large Hailong case battery, there is a way to mount the battery without needing to drill and add another riv-nut into the frame. You need to remove the rear cover (on the battery mounting plate, secured with 4 x small screws). If you have the latest version of the battery there should be a slot visible on the underside of the alloy mounting plate, if there isn’t a slot you can drill one to accommodate the Allen bolt. Here is a link to one of my YT videos showing how it’s done (the battery mounting section starts at 5 mins 40 secs).

          Regarding the speed sensor – a 5mm gap between the magnet and sensor seems to be just right, much further or closer and it doesn’t work properly. I’ve had a good look on eBay and Amazon UK and the only cables available are shipped from China, I’ve tried a couple of the European suppliers but none are in stock.

          Let me know how the build goes and what you think if the motor.

          Cheers,
          Tony

          Reply
          • October 5, 2020 at 8:01 pm
            Permalink

            Value for Money

            9.5

            Ease of Installation

            8

            Reliability

            10

            Hi Tony.
            Yes i used the method that you described and fitted an extra fixing there, which really makes for a strong fitting. With regards to the sensor i took the mounting bracket apart and with the use of some double sided tape and cable ties have it all working fine with a good gap as you recommended.
            I must say how impressed i am with the tongsheng, it’s quiet and the power is more than adequate for coping with the best hills the south wales valleys have! I am making the most out of using full power at the moment in an effort to drain the 17.5mah battery so i can cycle it a few times and i’m amazed that after 30 odd miles of hard uphill use it’s still at two thirds capacity! To top it all my friend who is an ardent downhiller and has just spent 5k on a new specialized e-bike cant quite believe how good it is. In fact a few in my street think i’m tour de france material now! Again thank you for your invaluable advice,which without me finding this great site would have found me on the wrong path.
            I wish you continued success.
            Regards Dave.

          • October 6, 2020 at 8:16 am
            Permalink

            Hi Dave,

            Thanks for sharing, glad you’re enjoying your new ebike conversion. I’ve ridden a Tongsheng converted MTB and an expensive e-MTB back to back and there’s not a lot in it, if anything the TSDZ2 feels a bit livelier. You should get a really decent range from your battery, I’ve found the Tongsheng is very efficient.

            Glad you’ve found my site useful. If you need any advice in future, give me a shout.

            All the best,
            Tony

  • August 10, 2020 at 8:38 pm
    Permalink

    Hi Tony.
    Can i first thank you for the review and invaluable help these pages have provided for me and no doubt many others.It is indeed a rare thing to get an honest unbiased professional opinion like this.
    I would appreciate any input you could give me regarding the choices i have made. I am planing on fitting a TSDZ2 to my 2010 specialized hard rock pro disc mtb. I plan to use a 17.5ah samsung cell 48v battery ,on the 750w version. i am going to use the trusted suppliers that you provided links to as they seem to be reputable enough for you ,thats good enough for me .My bike has a 17″ frame and i wonder if you can forsee any problems with this set up? The other question i have is regarding using upp for the battery they say on aliexpress that they can ship from germany but when you click on the german shipping option the 17,5 ah battery does not seem to be available there, does this mean it can only come from china warehouse? I intend buying the motor kit off ebay using elifebike and would like to get both items at roughly the same time if possible.
    Thanks again for a brilliant review which has pointed me in the right direction for my needs.I definitely would have bought the wrong conversion for me without your guidance.
    Dave.

    Reply
    • August 11, 2020 at 8:23 am
      Permalink

      Hi Dave,

      Thank you for your compliments, glad you’ve found my website useful.

      In answer to your question, I’ve had a look at the specification of the Specialized Hardrock Pro, and it looks like it should be a fairly straightforward conversion. It looks like the rear derailleur cable is routed along the top so you won’t need to worry about re-routing that. The only possible issue I can see is you may be restricted in battery size due to the smaller frame size. The standard Hailong battery case is 365mm (L) x 90mm (W) x 110mm (H) it would be worth taking the dimensions of your frame triangle to make sure it will fit, otherwise you may need to compromise and fit a smaller battery.

      Elifebike on eBay are a dependable supplier, I’ve had loads of Bafang units off them over the years. BatteryempireUK are a good store on eBay, I’ve had quite a few batteries off them over the last year and no problems to date. If you don’t mind waiting a couple of weeks, speak to Jimmy at ebikebatteries.co.uk. His batteries are quite expensive, but they are assembled in the UK using the highest standards. I’ve just serviced a Voodoo MTB fitted with a Bafang BBSHD and one of his batteries that is over 3 years old and 4000 miles in and it is still showing 54.4v on the multimeter!

      I hope this information helps, if you need any more advice, please let me know.

      Cheers,
      Tony

      Reply
  • August 2, 2020 at 1:37 pm
    Permalink

    I am going to convert my fatbike using a Tongshen motor kit, but have a couple of questions I hope you can help with…..
    The bottom bracket is 100mm, I have looked online, and it seems there is an extension pieace that you can buy, but do I need a special tool to fit it? The only video I have found seems to show a specially machined tool used for aligning the extension and bearing…..or have I got that wrong?
    I have ridden a couple of Bosch motored e mountain bikes, and found the performance perfectly adequate for my needs, so does the Tongsheng motor produce similar power? I am happy to pedal and want the motor to assist on climbs, so want to keep the weight/price down as much as possible. The last bike I rode had a 250w Bosch motor and 650Wh battery, which seemed a good combination, what would the nearest equivalent Tongsheng setup to that?
    Thanks in advance, and thank you for a great website, really helpful and informative..

    Reply
    • August 2, 2020 at 8:56 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Peter,

      I’ve never performed this conversion myself, but from the information available you will need to tap your existing axle shaft with 30.2mm thread – there is more information on this on the eco-bike.com website (including installation video). You will need the services of an engineer with the appropriate tooling to do this job properly.

      The 250w Tongsheng motor is very similar in performance / torque output to the Bosch CX motor – I wouldn’t say it’s quite as smooth or as quiet (as the Bosch), but it’s about as close as you’re going to get with a retro-fit mid-drive conversion. Apparently re-programming the firmware can bring the TSDZ2 very close to the Bosch in terms of overall feel, but having ridden a Bosch e-bike and Tongsheng e-bike on the same day, I would say the difference is negligible.

      As far as battery is concerned to get the Wh (watt hour figure) you multiply the voltage (V) by amp hours (Ah) so a 36v 17.5Ah battery would give you 630Wh. I have purchased over 100 batteries from UPP direct from China, delivery takes 14-21 days, but they use decent cells and I have very rarely had any issues. Here is a link to a suitable battery from their eBay UK store.

      I hope this information helps, if you need any more advice let me know.

      Cheers,
      Tony

      Reply
      • August 3, 2020 at 7:40 am
        Permalink

        Thanks for the quick reply Tony.
        Sounds like it’s doable, but I will need to call in a few favours from engineer friends!!
        If I manage to get the conversion done successfully, I’ll post up on here in case anyone else is thinking of having a go.
        Regards
        Pete

        Reply
        • August 3, 2020 at 8:48 am
          Permalink

          Hi Peter,

          Thanks, please do. I do have some photographs from a French reader, who did a similar conversion using the Tongsheng on a full suspension mountain bike with a wide pressfit bottom bracket. I’ll try and find them and post on the article.

          All the best,
          Tony

          Reply
  • July 28, 2020 at 9:31 am
    Permalink

    Hi Tony, thank you for your extremely informative website.
    I plan to convert my Scott Sub Cross with the Tongsheng 250w motor. Right now I can’t see the manual on the page https://ebikechoices.com/nl/tongsheng-tsdz2-installation-manual/?ao_noptimize=1, it continues to indicate “loading”. Can I see the manual elsewhere? I think it would help me a lot with the installation!

    Because I have a female model, unfortunately there is little space for the battery. My eye fell on this bottle model battery (https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/32951953473.html?spm=a2g0z.12010612.8148356.3.22553ab19lim9Y), do you have experience with this battery? And would you recommend the 48v or the 36v version? What would you expect from the range?
    Thank you very much for your help!

    Best,
    Patty

    Reply
    • July 28, 2020 at 2:34 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Patty,

      I just checked on the page and the manual does upload (eventually!) If you still can’t get it to work try this one.

      The battery in question comes from UPP, which is a supplier I have purchased well over a hundred batteries from in the past. Their compact bottle batteries have always proved to be very reliable. The 48v TSDZ2 using the 48v 7Ah bottle battery should give you a potential range of around 30 – 40 miles, but this will really depend on the power output you decide on (and how often you use turbo mode). The Tongsheng is the most efficient e-bike motor kit you can buy, so you should be okay. If you required a longer range it may be worth buying a higher powered rack battery or maybe a second bottle battery.

      I hope this helps, if you need any more advice, please let me know.

      All the best,
      Tony

      Reply
  • July 25, 2020 at 7:16 pm
    Permalink

    Hi Tony after looking on your website and reviews I’ve gone for a Tongsheng 750 watt. I went for it after seeing it was more like a Bosch style motor. I started my strip down and rebuild last night on my donor bike. The motor and battery arrived today so I hope to get it fitted tomorrow. Great site loads of good information!!

    Reply
    • July 25, 2020 at 9:04 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Matt,

      Glad you’ve found my site useful. Good feedback is always appreciated. Let me know how the build goes, and if you need any help or advice feel free to contact me through this site or Facebook.

      Cheers,
      Tony

      Reply
  • July 21, 2020 at 8:24 am
    Permalink

    Hi

    Firstly thank you for all your work on this review it’s very helpful.

    I own a 2015 Scott sub comfort 10 with a coaster brake and would like to install a 500w motor, my bike spec is exactly as on the following page, would you Mind taking a look at the detailed spec and advising me on whether I can fit the tsdz2 to my cycle, the link is. https://www.thebikelist.co.uk/scott/sub-comfort-10-men
    Thank you in advance

    Reply
    • July 21, 2020 at 7:56 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Robin,

      I’ve had a look at the specification of your bike and I don’t see any obvious reason why the TSDZ2 shouldn’t fit. The bottom bracket is a standard Shimano cartridge-type which suggests the Tongsheng should fit.

      As your bike has a coaster brake, you will need to purchase the coaster brake-specific version of the Tongsheng motor. In my experience the TSDZ2 works well with the Shimano Nexus 8 geared hub.

      I hope this helps, if you need any more advice regarding installation, please let me know.

      All the best,
      Tony

      Reply
  • July 2, 2020 at 6:50 pm
    Permalink

    Hello! Really appreciate your in-depth treatment of these products. It’s more detailed and helpful than most stores who sell them. I’m looking to buy a new bike fairly soon, and am trying to make sure that it’d be possible to install an e-bike kit on it in the future, should the desire strike me. The two models I’m considering appear to have the following bottom brackets:
    https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/product/component/deorext-m8000/BB-MT800.html
    https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/product/component/shimano/BB-UN55.html
    Would they be compatible with the TSDZ2?

    Reply
    • July 2, 2020 at 11:49 pm
      Permalink

      Hi John,

      Both of those bottom brackets fit a standard 68mm-73mm threaded BB shell so the bikes should be compatible with the TSDZ2. The only thing you may need to do is re-route the rear gear shifter cable, as there is minimal clearance between the motor shaft and housing.

      If you need any more info, please let me know.

      Regards,
      Tony

      Reply
  • June 29, 2020 at 1:33 pm
    Permalink

    Hello Tony,
    Greetings from Czech Republic and thank you for a great and very informative review.
    I would like to install the TDSZ2 on my 10 years old Trek Navigator with 28 inch wheels. It is for me very difficult to decide which version I should buy. It seems to me that the legal limit is 250W / 25Km/h but I do not know is it enough for everyday use – mostly commuting, touring, sometimes up to hill?
    I borrowed a bike with Bafang – did not like the way it works. I guess the torque sensitive drive would be much better. I am getting old and have had some serious back problems. My doctor told me that I should use a bike (what I did before a lot), but I need some assistance when going up to hill or on unpaved road. Just can not press pedals with full force without filing pain in my back. I am pretty tall and weight some 95 kgs.Could you please advice me – would be the “legal” version the solution or should I install the more powerful 36V/500w or 48V/750W? Does the high power matter or is it important only when using a bike with high speed or in a very rough terrain (which I am not going to do anyway).
    I would appreciate any advice.
    Kind regards
    Jan

    Reply
    • June 29, 2020 at 2:22 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Jan,

      I found the 36v 500w version to be the best all-rounder. There’s not a lot of difference between the 250w and 500w in Eco and Tour modes, the extra power is more noticeable in Speed and Turbo mode. Personally I think the 250w offers enough power to cope comfortably with moderate climbs of 10%, I have gone up hills as steep as 20% and still had to put a fair bit of my own power through the pedals to keep the motor going. With the 500w version on the same 20% climb I still had to put in a fair effort, but it was a lot kinder to my legs.

      If you have any more questions, please let me know.

      All the best,
      Tony

      Reply
      • July 3, 2020 at 9:25 am
        Permalink

        Hi Tony,
        Thank you for your advice. Finally I decided to go with the basic 36V motor, try it and then possibly upgrade to 850C display and flash it with the Open Source Firmware. It should gives me the flexibility to fine tune the torque and power to my needs if necessary.
        I have some technical knowledge and experience so it shouldn’t be a problem to do it myself.
        Do you think is it a good choice?
        Have a nice weekend
        Jan

        Reply
        • July 3, 2020 at 9:57 am
          Permalink

          Hi Jan,

          Yes, the Open Source Firmware seems to work very well and can make the motor smoother and more efficient.

          please let me know how it goes.

          All the best,
          Tony

          Reply
  • June 24, 2020 at 1:57 pm
    Permalink

    I tried to install the motor for my MTB. But I couldn’t. Because the gap between motor and BB is narrow. My bike frame around BB is thick,just current ordinary type. So it seems that the motor is only for old or commute bike not for sports bike. I’m dissapointed and the motor need more update and developnent if use for modern sports bike.

    Reply
    • June 24, 2020 at 5:02 pm
      Permalink

      I would agree with you that the clearance between the shaft and motor is too narrow. I usually need to re-route gear cables even when fitting to a regular hybrid frame. Tongsheng definitely need to re-design the motor to accommodate modern designs.

      Reply
  • June 20, 2020 at 11:29 am
    Permalink

    hi everyone and Hi Tony,
    After a Long Time I am looking to a new project. I have already asked your advice with bbshd Tony but I tried one and it is more of a electrical scooter than bike riding.
    My problem is that I live in Swiss and I havr my work literally 300 m below my house it is a 4 min bike downhill with fully I commute twice a day… sometimes with kids behind in a chariot so I take a bafang hub motor 250w but it is not powerful enough. I mostly ride it with normal MTB uphill when I travel light.
    So my neighbor give me for free a brand new trekking bike and I wanted to transform it to an electrical bike.
    My question is 750w ok and Wich voltage would be enough 48 or 52? I search not speed but more something reliableI was thinking to put a smaller chainring 32 to not overheat the motor and Eve maybe put a 11-50 cassette by the way on AliExpress you can find really amazing cassette for old 8-10 gear Wich not even exist here in Europe I already have on on my MTB work great.I need more of torque speed is anyway not necessary 28kmh here is enough.
    So any suggestions for batteries and voltage and chainring
    Thanks for the help
    Fil

    Reply
    • June 20, 2020 at 3:10 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Filip,

      I would say a BBS02 750w running a 48v battery with the maximum current limited to 18A should be a fairly reliable set-up. You will need the USB programming lead and software. If you use ‘Karls special sauce’ programming parameters (but with current set at 18A) it will make for a very smooth and progressive pedal assist, it will also be kinder to the controller. I tried one of those large cassettes (11-40 8-speed) on my old touring bike and it worked very well with a Shimano Alivio derailleur – I just needed to adjust the ‘b’ screw a little. Regarding chainring, I reckon 32-34t will be ideal if you are not bothered about speed. French company Precialps do some great CNC machined Bafang chainrings and chainring adapters, their chainrings are as good as the Lekkie Bling Ring but a little cheaper – here is a link to their Bafang page.

      I hope you find this information useful.

      All the best,
      Tony

      Reply
  • June 4, 2020 at 6:37 pm
    Permalink

    Thank you for your page. I’m planning add electrical assist to my mountaint bike (Orbea Satellite 2013) and your reviews are helping a lot.
    I will have a 3’4km of big slope to run a lot of days (9% average) and the return with 1km (13% average) . Appart of that I will like drive in forest trails.

    I see the at Ebird shop and its available (from Spain) models 48V750W/500w and 36V/500w with the similar-same price. what of them you think its the best option?
    all of them are the same size? same noise?same resistance when are without battery?

    I think more Voltage, less Amp-> less hot, but i prefer to know if your impression if you have the opportunity of tested them (36V/48V)

    apart of that , to use the programing sowtware its possible with the VLCD6 or VLD5 or XH18? or is neccesary buy other display?

    and the final question, its possible add a second chainring? (i read that in i dont know where, im confused about its possible or not)

    Thank you very much!

    *Sorry for my english, its not my language 🙂

    Reply
    • June 4, 2020 at 9:08 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Alvaro,

      I’ve tested both versions, I have a 1.8km climb near me which is 143m of elevation with an average gradient of 8.6% (with the first 0.5km at 12.6%) both the 36v and 48v 500w handle the climb well, but I would agree that more volts, less amps would be better for efficiency and long-term reliability.

      I haven’t had a chance to try out the programming yet, but there is a version of the firmware available where you can use the standard displays (although you will not have all the functionality and programming options as using a KT-LCD3 display). Here is a link regarding this on endless-sphere.

      I’ve never fitted the double chainring, although I know people who have done it successfully, but they have had to limit the gear range on the rear cassette. The main problem is the offset of the motor.

      I hope this information helps, if you need any more advice, let me know.

      Cheers,
      Tony

      Reply
  • June 4, 2020 at 9:02 am
    Permalink

    Value for Money

    9

    Ease of Installation

    5

    Reliability

    8

    Hi Tony,
    Thanks to your site I bought a Tongsheng 48V 500W VLCD5 to upgrade my city bike.
    It was fun to build. Also I had some challenges to overcome. My Gazelle city bike has an incompatible bracket crankshaft diameter. It is too big and no conversion parts were available so I had to make something myself. I used some rubber tube of swimming pool parts and shoved it on the motor. Then I could fit it in the bracket. At the other end I hammered a self made oak wood tube into the bracket. And yes it fits.
    Another problem was I had to use a chain tensioner because I have Shimano Nexus 8. The old one didn’t fit because it is in the region of the motor. So I bought a Shimano alfine chain tensoner and something which I call a derailleurpad to fit it to the frame.
    Now it all looked ok but there was a strange thing. The first 5 km after loading the battery the motor doesn’t work. I found out that my battery charger is 54.6v that might be the problem? Anyway it didn’t damage the battery and I have used the bike already a 400 km. I also fitted a 44 teeth chain wheel for just a bit more speed. It feels very good and strong. With the 48V12.8AH battery I can drive about 80km it has LG cells.
    And SPD pedals were a great upgrade too very recommended for fast bikes.

    Reply
    • June 4, 2020 at 9:42 am
      Permalink

      Hi Marcel,

      Thanks for sharing your experiences. The Gazelle City Bike has a Thompson bottom bracket (which is 40mm diameter I think) you did well to install the TSDZ2 successfully. I installed a Bafang motor on a similar bike and had a shim machined out of alloy.

      Regarding the battery charger, a 48v battery fully charged is 54.6v so the charger is correct. 80km is a decent range from a 48v 12.8Ah battery, are you using in mainly ‘tour’ mode or higher?

      I definitely like SPD pedals, I started using them about 2 years ago. They took a couple of days to get used to, but now I couldn’t imagine riding without them.

      All the best,
      Tony

      Reply
      • June 6, 2020 at 5:08 pm
        Permalink

        “are you using in mainly ‘tour’ mode or higher?”
        Speed mode most of the time. The landscape is very flat here but also windy. I bought the kit for cycling to my work and now I’m working from home 😉

        Reply
  • June 1, 2020 at 3:12 pm
    Permalink

    Hi Tony,

    please excuse if my words sound a bit strange, I’m not native english speaking.

    I recently moved to the mountains and can’t handle climbing the slopes (up to 18%) on my own anymore. So I thought about fitting a Motor to my 1992 steel frame Koga Miyata. It is in good condition, no major rust and I’d love to continue using it.

    I thought first, a rear motor would fit nicely because i like it’s decency. But my weight and fitness level seem not to allow that option, system weight incl me is close to 280 lbs. So it’s gonna be a middle motor.

    Since I want to stay legal, I’m aiming at either TSDZ2 or BBS01B. I favour the TSDZ2 because of the torque sensor, but from what I’ve heard there are slight disadvantages I may not be willing to take. It’s the sound. Almost everywhere when searching for a comparison between both motors, I read that BBS01B is almost absolutely quiet, while the TSDZ2 comes with a more or less frequent occurring noise.

    I love about my bike very much the old silent clutch of the back wheel. Other than the sound of my wheels touching the ground, my bike is very silent. I fear changing this to a degree I wouldn’t like.

    What are your impressions on this? Is the TSDZ2 noisy? Also, have you come across of latest 2020 version and has this maybe changed?

    Thank you for your great reviews helping me steer through the pedelec jungle:)

    Thorsten

    Reply
    • June 2, 2020 at 9:51 am
      Permalink

      Hi Thorsten,

      Apologies for the delay in replying. In answer to your question the Bafang BBS01B 250w is much quieter than the Tongsheng. I have installed quite a few TSDZ2 motors in the last year and there seems to be quite a difference in noise levels from motor to motor. Some are fairly quiet and some are quite audible. The Bafang on the other hand is consistently quiet. I hope this helps. If you have any more questions, please let me know.

      All the best,
      Tony

      Reply
      • August 26, 2021 at 8:01 pm
        Permalink

        Hi Tony, just getting into E biking, and I like the sound of the TSDZ2.
        I live in Spain, and have some lovely off-road with large hills, and I want to try and get it right as funds are limited.
        Do you think a 750w motor with 48v battery, or a 500w with 48v. Which do you think is going to be more suitable for me,
        I’m around 72kgs, and reasonably fit 62 year old, I’m not looking for out and out speed, but good torque on the hills, and a reasonable range, as I will be riding some distance (on road) to get to some of the tracks.
        Also, will I need to buy motor and battery separate, or is there anyone that does it as one complete kit.
        If I need to purchase separately, which battery can you suggest.
        I have a budget of 800€, will that be enough?
        Thanks, Keith.

        Reply
        • August 26, 2021 at 9:19 pm
          Permalink

          Hi Keith,

          The 48v 500w motor will be more than suitable for your needs. There’s not a lot of difference in performance between the two in the higher power levels. Battery choice will be down to how far you want to go on a single charge – the best all-rounder would be a 48v 15.6Ah battery. That should give you a range of anywhere between 50-80 miles depending on how much climbing you’re doing and how much assist you use. Here is a link to 48v 15.6Ah battery – I’ve purchased lots of Green Cell batteries in the past and always found them to be very reliable.

          If you have any more questions, please let me know.

          All the best,
          Tony

          Reply
          • August 27, 2021 at 4:52 pm
            Permalink

            Thanks Tony, much appreciated, and love your dedication to help others.
            All the best.

          • August 27, 2021 at 5:03 pm
            Permalink

            You’re welcome👍

  • May 30, 2020 at 8:38 pm
    Permalink

    I have a Bafang fitted to my GT Grade and I do not like the lack of torque sensor so am thinking of swapping over to Tongsheng
    Can I just replace the Motor and use the Bafang wiring, LED and gear sensor

    Reply
    • May 30, 2020 at 9:49 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Mike,

      No, you will need to replace the whole kit. The Bafang and Tongsheng wiring looms are not interchangeable. You shouldn’t need to use a gear sensor with the Tongsheng due to the smoother way it produces its pedal assist.

      I hope this helps. If you need any more advice, let me know.

      Cheers,
      Tony

      Reply
      • May 31, 2020 at 3:59 am
        Permalink

        Hi, I couldn’t work out how to post my own thread so I hope it’s OK to hijack this one for a question. Firstly, the info on this thread is great so thank you. Just wondering on your opinion on converting a full suspension. I’m really eager to go the ebike route for trails and some smaller jumps etc but am worried about the ground clearance being an issue. Do you know roughly how much clearance I would lose just so I could get a gauge for whether I would be comfortable with the motor on my bike?

        Reply
        • May 31, 2020 at 11:51 am
          Permalink

          Hi Dan,

          I’ve converted quite a few full suss bikes using the Tongsheng, and clearance doesn’t seem to be too much of a problem. The motor will reduce the clearance beneath the bottom bracket by roughly 3 inches – it really depends on the kind of trails and jumps you’re going to be tackling. The Orange MTB in the article is used for DH riding in the Forest of Dean and the guy who did the conversion has said that the clearance isn’t an issue.

          If you have any more questions, let me know.

          Cheers,
          Tony

          Reply
  • May 29, 2020 at 10:02 am
    Permalink

    Hi Tony!
    I’m thinking of converting my one year old, seven shift cheap bike into electric, using a Tongsheng TSDZ2 engine, but I am a bit confused what to look for. The bike has footbrake and rimbrake on the frontwheel (with lever). The gears are Shimano Nexus so inside the back wheel. On some pages it says that TSDZ2 works with footbrakes but on others it says it doesnt. I have not seen any other marks or names that would indicate what kind of brakes it is for.
    Have you figured this out and can help me?

    Br, Anders

    Reply
    • May 29, 2020 at 4:48 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Anders,

      It sounds like your bike has a coaster brake, but it’s hard to know for sure without having the exact make and model (of the bicycle). The coaster brake engages by back pedalling. Here is a definition of a coaster brake on Sheldon Brown.

      If your bike does have a coaster brake, then there is a TSDZ2 model that will be compatible – here is a link to the coaster brake version.

      Please let me know if you need any more advice.

      All the best,
      Tony

      Reply
      • June 1, 2020 at 8:05 am
        Permalink

        Yes it definitely has a coaster brake. The bike is a Madison Monza (https://www.madison.fi/monza-7). But my question really is, how to find the right Tongsheng engine for these (you had a link to AliExpress, but if I want to search it from other pages). I mean, it seems that they all go with the TSDZ2 marks only? There is nothing in the marking that says it is for coaster brake other than in the text?

        /Anders

        Reply
        • June 1, 2020 at 2:10 pm
          Permalink

          Hi Anders,

          I’ve just checked the specification on your bike, but I couldn’t find the bottom bracket type. Do you know if it’s a standard square-tapered bottom bracket or is it an eccentric bottom bracket? Sometimes the latter is fitted to bicycles with an internal geared hub (for adjusting chain tension). If this is the case, you may not be able to fit the Tongsheng due to the limited clearance between the motor shaft and motor housing. I have just checked the link I posted in my last comment, and it is specifically for the coaster brake version of the TSDZ2, so it should be compatible.

          If you have any more questions, let me know.

          Regards,
          Tony

          Reply
    • May 30, 2020 at 8:15 pm
      Permalink

      Value for Money

      8.5

      Ease of Installation

      6

      Reliability

      0

      Hi Tony thanks for the great resources on your site. I built up an Ebike in March and now my bike buddies have asked me to help them do the same. We ordered 5 TSDZ2 motors from Ebird on AliExpress (they are very helpful). There is one question they have not been able to clear up. One motor of the 5 shipped is 36v 500 watt. I cannot see any indication of wattage on any of the motors. Can you help me figure out which motor is 500 watt?

      Reply
      • May 30, 2020 at 9:55 pm
        Permalink

        Hi Mike,

        Unfortunately, there are no discernible markings on the motor to differentiate between models. There should be something on the labels on the boxes (if you still have them).

        If you can’t identify which is which, you will need to install a couple of the motors, the 500w should feel more powerful in Speed and Turbo mode (but not noticeably different in Eco and Tour mode).

        If you need any more help, please let me know.

        All the best,
        Tony

        Reply
  • May 27, 2020 at 5:51 am
    Permalink

    Hi Tom, I have a Tongsheng TSDZ2 engine and have driven 3,500 km. When shifting gears, I hear a sound in the engine as if the engine is slipping (it doesn’t just growl faster). Can you advise me on what to do about it?

    Reply
    • May 27, 2020 at 9:03 am
      Permalink

      Hi Julio,

      I sounds to me like the blue primary gear may be slipping. Here is a quick video from YouTube detailing how to check the gear: https://youtu.be/6guf_4u6d1I

      Let me know how things go.

      All the best,
      Tony

      Reply
  • May 26, 2020 at 6:01 pm
    Permalink

    Value for Money

    9

    Ease of Installation

    6.5

    Reliability

    8.5

    Hi Tony,
    I’ve read everything written on this page (comments including), and I’m pretty confident that this is the best mid drive motor for me (as I’m looking for a cheap, over 100 km range motor). On Aliexpress I found 2 types of TSDZ2 xh18 and vlcd5. Which one should I buy? What is the difference between the two? Which store do ou buy from on Aliexpress? From China or Spain? Many thanks and don’t forget that you did a great job here, answering to all the questions to clarify loads of info! Good job!

    Reply
    • May 26, 2020 at 9:07 pm
      Permalink

      Hi,
      I personally prefer the VLCD6 which is the smallest display, but not available from all the vendors. If it was a choice between the XH18 and VLCD5 I would go with the LCD5. I’ve never personally used the XH18, but from what I have been told it is okay. If you’re buying from within the EU, ebird store on Aliexpress have always provided a good service. I have purchased many units from them and have not had any issues to date. Here is the link to their product page.

      Glad you like the site, and thank you for your positive comments, much appreciated.

      All the best,
      Tony

      Reply
      • May 29, 2020 at 11:00 am
        Permalink

        One more question, Tony. I followed your link for the battery section and I couldn’t find a 48v 17,5 Ah battery to fit inside my bike frame (it’s a small frame). I found a triangled one but it’s got 14A. Would a 48 V 750W motor work with a 48V 14Ah battery? I remember reading somewhere in your posts that this type of motor works with a battery within the range of 16 – 18 Ah. Would the 4 Ah have an effect on the power/range of the motor? Thanx.

        Reply
        • May 29, 2020 at 4:56 pm
          Permalink

          Hi Remus,

          The 14Ah battery would be fine. The Ah rating refers to ‘amp hours’ this is a unit of electrical charge and is different to the battery discharge capacity (current) in amps. Most 48v batteries have a continuous discharge rate of at least 25 amps, which will be more than enough for the TSDZ2.

          The higher the ‘Ah’ rating the greater the battery range. Here is a link to my electric bike batteries explained article which goes into a bit more detail about battery energy capacity.

          Regards,
          Tony

          Reply
      • May 29, 2020 at 1:05 pm
        Permalink

        I also thought about buying 2 batteries 36v 17.5 ah for the 48v 750x motor and use them both on long rides. … could this be a solution? Thanx.

        Reply
        • May 29, 2020 at 5:00 pm
          Permalink

          You wouldn’t be able to use 36v batteries with the 48v motor unless you reprogrammed the controller using the Open Source firmware.

          If you have any more questions, please let me know.

          All the best,
          Tony

          Reply
  • May 26, 2020 at 5:04 pm
    Permalink

    Hi Tony, me again……
    I have today ordered a kit via aliexpress [Blueenergia] and a battery from battery empire Uk. Thanks for you avice, it has really helped.

    I have just one other item to source but I need to check what to ask for as it is non-standard. This is a battery cable extension cable to go between battery cable and motor cable. Can you give any indication what to look for please.

    Cheers once again

    Bob

    Reply
    • May 27, 2020 at 7:52 am
      Permalink

      Hi Bob,

      When I install these motors on recumbent trikes,I have a couple of rolls of red and black positive / negative lead and I just extend the cable that way, using crimp connectors and heatshrink. You can get the correct cable from most auto stores or online from Amazon / eBay.

      Regards,
      Tony

      Reply
  • May 25, 2020 at 7:34 am
    Permalink

    Hi Tony and thanks for your site, really informative.
    I am looking to electrify my ICE Adventure Recumbent Trike as I have had 2 hip replacements and back trouble and am far more comfortable on my trike these days. Despite the above and advancing years I can still push the trike along ok but inclines and hills are a killer hence the assist. Perhaps you can assist with your perspective on a couple of questions.
    1. I’m not loooking for an effortless ride, just assistance for hills. Do you agree Tongsheng good choice.
    2. I’m leaning towards the 48v 250w as opposed to 36v from Woosh Bikes. Good choice? Note it is £335.
    3.If not above i’m just a little worried about Aliexpress as there are copier and fakers on there. What is your experience and where do you source yours.
    4. Cabling. With the motor on boom and planning battery on back of seat with display atop handlebars will i need to extend just the battery and sensor cables?
    5. I’m not looking for a super long distance battery as I don’t expect to over use and think keeping weight down sensible so something like a 10-12ah one was thought. Does this make sense and wehre would your source be.

    Many thanks again, stay safe

    Bob

    Reply
    • May 25, 2020 at 10:09 am
      Permalink

      Hi Bob,

      I’ve converted quite a few Ice Trikes using the Tongsheng, and personally I think it’s a great motor for a recumbent. The only downside is you are limited to a single chainring on the front which limits gear range and there is a perceivable increase in pedalling resistance when the motor is switched off.

      In my previous experiences with Woosh bikes they are a decent company and it should be a lot easier to get assistance if anything does fail prematurely on the motor.

      I buy all my Aliexpress motors from ebird store, who ship from within the EU and sell genuine TSDZ2 motors. To date, I have only had one blue gear failure out of nearly 40 installations (and that was on an MTB subjected to hard off-road use).

      The only extension leads you will need are battery and speed sensor. For mounting the display, I have found Ice Trikes own accessory mount to be good for mounting the display.

      The best compromise between lightweight small size, but reasonable range would be a 36v 10.5Ah compact bottle battery – this battery is about the size of a 1 litre cycling water bottle. I have customers report a potential range of up to 50 miles using this particular battery and have not had any issues reported to date. The battery in the link also uses Sanyo NCR18650GA cells, which are very good quality.

      I hope this information helps, if you need any more advice please let me know.

      Cheers,
      Tony

      Reply
      • May 25, 2020 at 11:39 am
        Permalink

        Many thanks Tony, much appreciated. I’ve been playing around with gear inches and do have a 9 – 32 tooth capreo cassette on back so high end I lose half a gear and normal cycling I virtually never use small front ring and typically use mid range on middle ring on hills. I’m assuming that is ok, so I could go to 42/32 front to rear on the new config.

        Can you give a steer on the 48v 250w TDS2 versus the 36V?

        Unfortunately batteries out of stock…..

        Cheers

        BOb

        Reply
        • May 25, 2020 at 9:37 pm
          Permalink

          Hi Bob,

          I have ridden both motors and to be honest as far as performance is concerned there doesn’t seem to be any discernible difference. The 48v version will be producing the same power as the 36v but drawing less current. There’s quite a few batteries available on eBay. Here is a link to a 48v 12.5Ah Hailong battery – I have purchased quite a few batteries from this particular supplier in the past.

          All the best,
          Tony

          Reply
  • May 13, 2020 at 10:03 am
    Permalink

    Hi Tony, everyone
    I have a couple of questions on the VLCD5 display setting.
    In the setup menu, what is the Power Setting (A) for – is to correlate with the battery power output?

    What are the pros and cons of adjusting this? I guess Im looking to see (at risk) of increasing this in a hope to increase the battery power draw and thus increase pedal or throttle assist.

    Reply
    • May 13, 2020 at 11:31 am
      Permalink

      Hi Andy,

      The power settings (A) on the VLCD5 display relates to the sensitivity of the torque sensor and not the current in amps – that is usually set in the firmware at 16A and can only be changed using the open source software.

      I have adjusted it up to 30 and it just seems to make the pedal assist more sensitive to changes in force.

      Cheers,
      Tony

      Reply
  • May 12, 2020 at 4:07 pm
    Permalink

    Hi Tony,

    Thanks for that great website. I am contemplating the idea to install a TSDZ2 on a Cube Hyde. I did a lot of research to try to address all the problems I might encounter before hand.
    I found a solution for most of them, but I am now facing one for which the solution might not that easy.
    The frame use an eccentric Bottom Bracket with pinch bolts…. Is that a hard “no go” with a TSDZ2 ?
    Here is the frame:
    https://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/cube-hyde-pro-frame-black-n-blue-695500

    One solution seems to cut the pinch bolts holders. Solder the bottom bracket and use an eccentric BB with an integrated locking mechanism like this one: https://cyclinic.com.au/products/cannondale-eccentric-bb

    Any other potential solutions you could think of ?

    Thanks
    Florian

    Reply
    • May 12, 2020 at 6:28 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Florian,

      The main problem with the TSDZ2 is there is minimal clearance between the motor shaft and motor housing, so you would definitely need to cut the pinch bolts. I have installed Bafang motor to bikes with eccentric BB’s like the one in the link, and as long as you set the shallow part of the BB at the bottom you may have just enough clearance – but it’s going to be tight.

      Regards,
      Tony

      Reply
      • May 12, 2020 at 6:57 pm
        Permalink

        Thanks for the answer Tony.
        Do you confirm the need for an eccentric BB with an integrated locking mechanism? Or the motor might lock it in place?

        Reply
        • May 13, 2020 at 7:59 am
          Permalink

          If you’re installing the TSDZ2, then there is a locking plate that straddles the area where the chainstays meet the bottom bracket shell. An 8mm Allen bolt goes down through the plate and screws into cast alloy piece on the motor unit. This should be sufficient to hold the motor in place. If you were fitting a Bafang, I would recommend getting the BB with the locking mechanism.

          Reply
          • May 13, 2020 at 10:47 am
            Permalink

            Great. Thanks a lot Tony.

            Another question, sorry 😀

            I am really interested in implementing the TSDZ2 because I am tempted by the “bionic” feeling it seems to give thanks to its torque sensor and being a mid drive kit, and the open source firmware. I am not necessarily in need of stiff heel climbing capability (in Paris). That said I do run into a lot of complications in that implementation because of the eccentric BB and the internal gear hub on the bike.
            A much easier and also cheaper implementation will be a front wheel hub but I never tested a front wheel hub bike. I am afraid that the “bionic” feeling won’t be there at all.

            Can a front wheel hub with a PAS torque sensor works/feels similar to the TSDZ2?

            Any front wheel hub motor with reprogramming capabilities and similar open source firmware than the TSDZ2 in mind ?

            Just out of curiosity what add-on are you using for the multi language (auto-translation) of your website ? WPML ?
            It works really well in French at least.

          • May 13, 2020 at 11:24 am
            Permalink

            Hi Florian,

            There is a torque-sensing system available (for hub motors), but it is only compatible with a standard threaded bottom bracket. If you could fabricate a BB adaptor it may work. You could use this in conjunction with a front or rear hub motor. It comes complete with a special controller and colour display – here is the link.

            The translator plug-in I’m using is called GTranslate – it works with WordPress sites and converts all existing URL’s and Keywords to 100’s of different languages. It also works on an SEO level – 80% of my traffic comes from non-English speaking countries. Here is a link, there is a free and paid version.

            All the best,
            Tony

  • May 12, 2020 at 3:20 pm
    Permalink

    Hi Tony
    In my TSDZ2 after 350 km there was a loud vibrating sound, Besides, everything works. I dismantled the engine and everything looks like new, I checked the bearings, sprockets and everything seems ok. The sound sometimes disappears and appears after 2-3 km. What could be the reason, could it be a blue wheel?

    This is the sound here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5wbv22t2og

    Reply
    • May 12, 2020 at 6:25 pm
      Permalink

      Hi,

      I just watched the video and it sounds like a poorly meshing gear. Did you manage to check the condition of the blue gear when you dismantled the motor? It would be worth a look. I’ve never had any issues with the blue gear personally, but they do sometimes fail prematurely.

      Let me know how you get on.

      Cheers,
      Tony

      Reply
  • May 1, 2020 at 4:18 am
    Permalink

    Really helpful article.
    But I’m disappointed that any mid-drive kits are only for square taper cranksets.
    I hope some company developed ISIS or direct mount in the future.

    Reply
    • May 1, 2020 at 8:25 am
      Permalink

      Hi,

      The only mid-drive kits that I’m aware of at the moment that use an ISIS BB are the Cyclone and CYC X1 Pro.

      Reply
      • May 1, 2020 at 10:08 am
        Permalink

        Thanks kind reply.
        I know another ISIS BB kit LIFT MTB and GNG electric.
        Those are pricy compare with big 2 brands.
        And I’m looking for a torque sensor type.
        I decide to wait next Gens.

        Reply
  • April 26, 2020 at 5:36 pm
    Permalink

    Hello Tony. I’m thinking about fitting this to an Islabike Beinn 29 which we have had for a few years and which my wife is very happy with. How can I tell whether it will fit?
    The bike has a cassette insert bottom bracket but I don’t know the sizes: I will have to ask Islabikes. We are looking for something which won’t add too much weight; it doesn’t need lots of torque or a huge battery and we definitely want a torque support rather than an on/off.

    The alternative is a Boardman HYB 8.9E but that it a lot of money…

    Reply
    • April 26, 2020 at 6:46 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Stephen,

      I’ve just found an old review from Cycling Weekly of the bike and looking at the specification it should be perfect for a TSDZ2. The bottom bracket is a regular 68mm-73mm sealed unit. The only thing you may have to do is re-route the rear shifter cable as there is rarely enough clearance between the bottom bracket shell and the motor to allow for cable routing. Apart from that it looks like an ideal donor bike.

      If you need any more advice, please let me know.

      Cheers,
      Tony

      Reply
  • March 6, 2020 at 8:21 am
    Permalink

    Hi Tony,
    As everyone says, a really helpful review and website.

    I’m currently recovering after a big operation which will leave me with one leg considerably weaker, maybe with only 50% of the power of the other. Thus I’m thinking about some e-assist, but I wondered if you had any thoughts on how this would work with the Tongsheng torque sensor? Specifically, if the torque I generate with my right leg is much less than my left, will the sensor change the level of assist between pedal strokes? That would leave me bunny-hopping along and make the assist process problematic. I’ve also wondered whether the Bafang cadence sensor would manage this better. Any ideas?

    Thanks
    Duncan

    Reply
    • March 6, 2020 at 3:11 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Duncan,

      In your case, I think a Bafang would be a better bet. The cadence pedal assist means you only need to turn the pedals to get assist (without applying any force). Also all Bafang kits come with a thumb throttle, so you can use the throttle to get going and then start pedalling. My friend has recently had a knee operation and that’s what he does.

      Another useful feature with the Bafang motor is it’s a lot easier to alter the pedal assist parameters (using free software and USB lead), you can alter the sensitivity of the assist, the start current and how quickly the power ramps up once pedalling starts. You can also increase the maximum current from 15 to 18 Amps (on the 250w), which will give you a bit more power to get going with and you can still cap the maximum power using the ‘keep current’ or ‘limit speed’ settings in pedal assist.

      Here is a link to the Bafang programming tutorial.

      If you need any more advice, please let me know.

      Regards,
      Tony

      Reply
  • February 21, 2020 at 2:43 pm
    Permalink

    Hi Tony,

    Great content – Thank you.
    I am considering getting TongSheng 48v 500w variant with VLDC5 display.
    I believe the display comes in two variants 6 / 8 pin.

    I have watched some vids online were the VLDC5 display is used to configure the region (ie EU)
    and to increase the speed where the motor assistance cuts out. I would certainly want to increase
    assist speed from 15mph to about 20-25. However some people are reporting that their version of
    The VLDC5 does not support this menu option. How do I ensure I get a version were I can update
    the max assist speed ?
    Paul

    Reply
    • February 21, 2020 at 11:11 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Paul,

      I haven’t personally come across a version of the V5LCD that can’t have the maximum assist speed changed, but it is possible due to increasing import regulations. I have just installed 2 TSDZ2 250w motors, they both had V5LCD displays and came from the supplier Ebird store on Aliexpress. Shipping time to the UK from Europe is about 3-4 working days. Both displays had configurable speed limits. There is a link to their store in the right hand sidebar on my site.

      If you have any more questions, please let me know.

      Regards,
      Tony

      Reply
  • February 4, 2020 at 12:50 pm
    Permalink

    hello,
    I have purchased and installed this drive and is working great with my cube aim pro.

    However recently i noticed that the drive started making a slight squeaking noise and the part that the sprocket is mounted on has a small looseness.

    I am reaching only about 600 miles on it, so the parts and bearings couldnt be wearing out yet i think…

    I checked and the sprocket’s bolts are tight, can you please let me know if there are there any hidden mounting bolts for the spline that the sprocket is attached to that i can check? or could it something else?

    I cant figure that out from the pictures in google.. I’m not sure if I’m missing something or i would need to disassemble the whole motor?

    Thanks for your help!

    Reply
    • February 4, 2020 at 9:59 pm
      Permalink

      Hi,

      A small amount of play in the chainring mounting plate is normal on the TSDZ2, I’ve installed over 30 and they all had a bit of play. I can only assume it is designed that way.

      As far a the squeaking noise is concerned, it could be caused by a number of things: Premature bearing wear is relatively rare, but not unheard of. If you line one of the pedal crank arms up with the chainstay and while holding the chainstay press inwards on the crank arm. A tiny little bit of play is normal, but if you have excess movement, it could mean the main crank bearing needs looking at. The Sprag clutch (on way bearing) has also been known to fail prematurely on occasion.

      If you need any further help, please let me know.

      Regards,
      Tony

      Reply
  • January 29, 2020 at 10:43 am
    Permalink

    Hi Tony,
    I installed the motor 100mm on my fat bike, but I should have opted for the 120mm instead because the Scott big Jon mont a very big tires, 4.8 and the frame is wide. The problem is infact that the left crank arm is too close to the frame, about 2mm. I wonder if you know a crank arm with more offset, in order to avoid the risk to touch the frame? For the right crank arm I will take the bafang one, with a low offset, so will reduce a bit the Q-factor. Any suggestion or workaroud?
    Best,
    Fabio

    Reply
    • January 29, 2020 at 11:47 am
      Permalink

      Hi Fabio,

      I have used a spacer previously on the motor axle to bring the crank arm out just enough to clear the chainstay, but i’m fairly sure there are crank arms available as a customer purchased one for his bike. I will contact the customer to find out the crank arm he used and get back to you later today.

      Regards,
      Tony

      Reply
      • August 12, 2020 at 11:27 am
        Permalink

        Hi Tony,
        did you happens to contact the customer to find out which crank arm I can use to have more offset?
        Thanks in advance,
        Fabio

        Reply
  • January 25, 2020 at 3:04 pm
    Permalink

    Hello.
    Thanks a lot for the great review and all the help in the comments. Sorry in advance for slaughtering english here and there-not my first language 😉
    I’m planing to buy TSDZ2 for my custom bike and there is some things that I’m concerned about.
    My frame is a lot different than a normal bike,so if I will be able to fit this motor on my bike,I will probably be forced to instal it in more of a vertical orientation than in horizontal (as it is instaled on normal frames)-is this an issue?
    Second potential problem is my bottom bracket. They state, that this mid drive is “designed to fit bikes with a 68mm (2.68 in.) or 73mm (2.87 in.) wide bottom bracket shell and 35mm inside diameter.” My bracket is 73 mm wide,so I’m fine here,but when it comes to the diameter…I got 35 mm inside (so again fine here) but it is made like this with the reducing adapter because the outside diameter of my bottom bracket is 58 mm-so the question is will TSDZ fit on a bracket that big?
    My hub is shimano nexus 3 with the break in pedals,so as I understand I’m limited to the 250/350W versions of TSDZ2 with coast/foot brake function. Question is will it be strong enough for my bike (which weighs about 35-40kg) and me (around 96-100kg) and will I not kill this motor right away with all that weight? 😀 I ride mostly on flat terrain with only few not so steep hills.
    Taking all the above under consideration what kind of range can I expect if I buy a 10,4 AH battery for that motor?

    Regards
    Ralph

    Reply
    • January 25, 2020 at 5:46 pm
      Permalink

      Hi Ralph,

      Thank you for you positive comments, glad you have found some useful info here.

      In answer to your question, I think it will be doubtful the TSDZ2 motor would fit due to the limited clearance between the motor shaft and housing. I once tried installing the TSDZ2 on a Dutch bike with a Thompson 40mm bottom bracket, and after I had a reducer shim machined, I still couldn’t fit the motor because of the limited clearance. To give you an idea of how little clearance there is, I usually need to remove the gear cable guides on some bikes (just to get the motor shaft into the BB shell).

      I’m not sure about having the motor installed vertically and how it would impact the torque-sensing pedal assist – I’ve never tried it so can’t say for sure.

      As you mention, the weight of your bike may cause problems. The TSDZ2 was designed for basic mountain / hybrid / city bikes weighing no more than around 15-20kg. It should be fine on the flat, but I know it can sometimes be unreliable on bikes that carry heavy loads (like cargo bikes).

      If you did manage to fit the motor, a good quality 36v 10.4ah battery should give you a range of around 40 miles, depending on the level of assist used.

      If you need any more advice, please let me know.

      Regards,
      Tony

      Reply
      • January 25, 2020 at 6:15 pm
        Permalink

        Tony,thank you for immediate reply and sharing your knowledge-you are a gentleman and a scholar dear sir 🙂
        Yeah,I thought there may be a problem to fit TSDZ to my bike. My friend is also interested in buying this motor for his normal bike,so if he will buy it then I will take it from him for a while and check how far I’m from instaling it.
        If not TSDZ then maybe you know about some other mid motor that can fit my bike and my weight needs?

        Regards
        Ralph

        Reply
        • January 25, 2020 at 6:30 pm
          Permalink

          Hi Ralph,

          The Cyclone kit would probably do the job. It’s not a particularly straightforward mid-drive installation, but they are